mitchell@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU (10/03/86)
From what I understand, SVR3 does not come with a machine readable version of the system manual pages for on-line man pages and a on-line record of changes/enhansements made to the system. I've always thought that this was one of the most efficient things about the UNIX development/operating environment. I am suprised at this because I understand that until release 3 on-line man pages came with ATT distributions (especially with a source distribution like we got), and now the only references that I have are the physical manuals. An ATT sales representitive told me that the new ASSIST software in SVR3 would somehow be a replacement for and even better than on-line man pages. ASSIST does not support "help" with any of the programming system/library calls that I OFTEN need, it only can help with shell commands (an a subset at that!). I (personaly) just see that ATT could have been more considerate of developers that are makeing THEIR system valuable by not throwing away facilities that we take as being part of our development environment. I see this as being another obsticle that I have to work around (as if I dont have enough just developing a system). Sincerely, Mitchell
ron@vsedev.VSE.COM (Ron Flax) (10/06/86)
In article <4326@brl-smoke.ARPA> cadovax!mitchell@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU (Mitchell Lerner) writes: > >From what I understand, SVR3 does not come with a machine readable version >of the system manual pages for on-line man pages and a on-line record of >changes/enhansements made to the system. I've always thought that this >was one of the most efficient things about the UNIX development/operating >environment. From what I understand the on-line manual was struck from the roster in SVR2, but *WAS* part of SVR1. For AT&T: Why???? It should at least be part of the source distribution, if not binary. Unless of couse AT&T would like to send sites copies of the manuals for each of the users on a given system. Not likely. -- ron@vsedev.VSE.COM (Ron Flax) UUCP: ..!seismo!vsedev!ron ARPA: vsedev.VSE.COM!ron@seismo.CSS.GOV
guy@sun.UUCP (10/07/86)
> From what I understand the on-line manual was struck from the roster > in SVR2, but *WAS* part of SVR1. Script started on Tue Oct 7 10:19:26 1986 gorodish$ cd /archbeluga/s5r2/usr/man gorodish$ ls a_man p_man u_man gorodish$ ls u_man man1 man6 gorodish$ ls u_man/man6 arithmetic.6 chess.6 intro.6 moo.6 sky.6 back.6 craps.6 jotto.6 quiz.6 ttt.6 bj.6 hangman.6 maze.6 reversi.6 wump.6 gorodish$ script done on Tue Oct 7 10:19:54 1986 So it seems that, at least in the VAX S5R2 ("Version 1") distribution, the on-line manual was supplied. It may not have been present in other distributions (e.g. a 3B2 binary distribution, although it may have been an add-on package there), but it certainly wasn't completely removed in S5R2. (Note that to make the non-"catman" form of the pages useful in an S5R2 system, you have to have the Documenter's Workbench or the S5R1 versions of "nroff" or "troff"; "nroff" and "troff" were not supplied as a standard part of S5R2.) -- Guy Harris {ihnp4, decvax, seismo, decwrl, ...}!sun!guy guy@sun.com (or guy@sun.arpa)
bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) (10/12/86)
Ok Guy (and others from SUN), here's a question that you cannot answer because policy does not permit it at this time and all that, but answer it anyhow, we won't tell... When SUN et al migrates to a compatible 4.2/SYSV utility base will part of that migration be: if [ "$DISTTYPE" = "STANDARD" ]; then rm -rf /usr/bin/nroff /usr/bin/troff /usr/lib/tmac /usr/man fi ? Allow me to say it is this unbundling in SYSV that is making me recommend to my institution to stay away from SYSV like a plague, future costs of software and negotiating multitudinous licensing agreement are just too unpredictable (and I see no reason to use our $$ to encourage it.) Other vendors? This is not a flame at SUN, I only address them because they are actually dealing with the issue, I suspect the other vendors will just start hitting us by surprise when the issues start to become more clear. Under current policies we buy SUNs like kids in a candy store. [FLAME] I claim that ATTIS' unbundling of pieces of UNIX and charging extra for them is due to an utter failure by them to provide add-on, new software to make a living off of, unbundling things that were there already is such an unsavory way to make a living, a total admission of failure and indicative of an organization in a serious degenerative state (ATTIS that is), unable to do anything new, janitors of a lost civilization roaming the great halls with brooms where hammers once rang proudly...[enough, Barry, enough!] -Barry Shein, Boston University "AT&T...we made UNIX...expensive"
mikel@codas.ATT.COM (Mikel Manitius) (10/17/86)
>From what I understand the on-line manual was struck from the roster >in SVR2, but *WAS* part of SVR1. For AT&T: Why???? > >It should at least be part of the source distribution, if not binary. >Unless of couse AT&T would like to send sites copies of the manuals for >each of the users on a given system. Not likely. I wouldn't be surprised if someone came up with the silly idea that if they don't include them in the release, you'll have to buy more paper documentation. -- Mikel Manitius @ AT&T-IS Altamonte Springs, FL ...{seismo!akgua|ihnp4|cbosgd|mcnc}!codas!mikel