lew (06/18/82)
In "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", Gibbon comments that the early Christians held their beliefs with an intensity that we cannot fully appreciate in our modern age. They eagerly sought martyrdom, leaping ecstatically into the flames. Gibbons manner of description is very wry, with his sympathies seemingly much more with the Romans than with the Christians. It seems to me that any form of afterlife requires a vitalistic view of life. That is, an extra-physical factor of some kind. This would seem to be inconsistent with the view that life, including man, evolved continuously from inanimate matter. At what point does the vitalistic spark enter the picture? This phylogenetic problem is recapitulated ontogenetically. Conception is a physical process; when and in what way does the vitalism occur? Francis Crick cited his anti-vitalistic sentiments as a prime motive in his choice of genetics as a field of endeavor. Since that time he has embraced the pansperma theory of life. This was a real surprise to me, I would think he would have more patience with evolution. Lew Mammel, Jr. - BTL Indian Hill
borman (06/21/82)
Lew Mammel, Jr. (article ihuxv.158) said: "It seems to me that any form of afterlife requires a vitalistic view of life. That is, an extra-physical factor of some kind. This would seem to be inconsistent with the view that life, including man, evolved continuously from inanimate matter." Well, I happen to belive in the Christian view of afterlife. I also happen NOT to belive in macro-evolution (e.g., we all evolved from one cell) I do belive in micro-evolution. (e.g, the evolution of the horse from it's smaller ancestors) So, I have no problem beliving in God and eternal life. Since this is net.suicide, and I'm talking anyway, how do I look at afterlife and suicide? Well, I belive in Heaven and Hell. I belive that those who have been forgiven of their sins will be saved. To be forgiven, you need to repent. I also belive you can't gain forgivness by confessing the act, and then carrying it out. (confession comes AFTER the sin, not before) So, if suicide is a sin, those who commit suicide are not forgiven, and thus are damned. (There just isn't time for a prayer after you've pulled the trigger) The reason I look at suicide as a sin is that it is the willful destruction of a creation of God. And not just any creature, but one with a Soul. (That part of us that lives on after death!) I look at suicide as a special case of murder; where the victim is the killer also. If those who are in such dispair that they wish to commit suicide would look to God, they would find the support they need to continue living. "If God is for us, who can be against us" (Rom. 8:31b) Ok, before you all start flaming at me, I also belive that it is possible for a suicide victim to be saved. For example: The victim drinks poison, and then before he dies, realizes his wrong, and prays for forgivness. But if he is really repentent, he'll try to vomit up the poison or something, so that he won't die.(If he still has the strength) So, like with everything else, there are no absoulutes. I also refuse to do any judging in any specific examples, because that is for God alone. (those who judge will themselves be judged) -Dave Borman St. Olaf College ihnss!ihps3!stolaf!borman
doug (06/21/82)
Aren't there all sorts of other exceptions, even for the strictest catholic, on suicide/damnation. Aren't there exceptions for people who are not sane at the time they do it? Doesn't this cover a large field? (I am not adhering to the previous gentleman's beliefs at all, I'm just making a query about the "rules" he cites)