[net.suicide] drivel

bimmler (02/15/83)

Well, Enid Brown, with friends like you....

No wonder "CW" is suicidal!  He comes to you with a severe personal
problem he would like to discuss and you blast it across the 
network into the prying gaze of thousands of nosey hacks
(after first broadcasting it down the dormitory halls).
Although you claim to love him, your interests are purely selfish:
YOUR life will be worsened by his death; YOU feel enraged that he
might kill himself; YOU needed his continued company; YOU are
going to curse his memory if all your M&M's aren't eaten. 
What a fine friend!  Ever wonder how HE might feel about things?

And who needs this maudlin, bathetic drivel, anyway?  Think I care about
how easily you cry?  And if you love him that much, why are you
marrying somebody else (a boy, no less)?

gh (02/15/83)

In defense of Enid Brown against the accursed rabbit!bimmler:

Preventing a suicide by invoking arguments of what it would do to the
survivors is perfectly reasonable.  After all, the conventional wisdom
is that many/most suicides are in effect acts directed against the survivors:
"Look what you drove me to; I hope this makes you miserable for the rest
of your life".  Making a person feel loved and wanted is important!

As readers of this group should know, being dead doesn't hurt (even if dying
does).  What hurts is not being dead.  To prevent a suicide, that's what you
have to try to change, and the strategy used for that must depend on the
individual.  I don't know if Enid did the best thing or not, but she was
there, she knew CW, so we have to trust her judgment.

It all makes me want to run right out and join the Samaritans.

	Graeme Hirst, Brown University Computer Science

iy47ab (02/18/83)

I am going to make a sincere effort not to flame at rabbit!bimmler,
if only because I'd like to try to be polite (why?).  It is surely
understood that love can be extended to many, in different ways, not
just to the person you are "in love" with!  And also;  the problem with
someone who is suicidal is basically that they *don't* care about
themself (actually, that they think no one else does).  This is not all
of it; don't get me wrong; but it is important.  By saying "*I* need you,
*I* will miss you," you encourage the person to think about other people
and to move away from themself for just a moment.  If they truly care
about you and about being a good person (and suicides almost invariably
do) this will move them to stop and consider for a moment; and it's that
moment that must be used to talk them out of it.  Suicides are people,
they are not mutants.  Love is not selfish, but sometimes its language
must be.  This is one of those times.

being as reasonable as I can...
arwen