[net.suicide] Why? - Because we love you!

jrt@hou5g.UUCP (Jaime Tormos) (01/27/84)

  If nothing else, I believe the existance of this newsgroup is
a reassurance to some that people DO care about others.  Some of
us take this group seriously, knowing that no matter how well things
are going, there will always be those moments when someone feels
that support is needed, and an encouraging word.  If nothing else
this media has helped those who are dealing with someone that they
know who is suicidal.  If this group can prevent one suicide, then
it is worth every bit of computer space and time and communications
cost used!
			(** FRODO **) alias hou5g!jrt

rick@rochester.UUCP (Rick Floyd) (01/29/84)

I keep hearing lines like "If this group can prevent one suicide, then it
is worth every bit of computer space and time and communications cost
used!"

I've never seen a justification for this philosophy, though. Anyone care
to try? Religious arguments don't count.

	rick floyd
	uucp: (seismo | allegra)!rochester!rick
	arpa: rick@rochester 
	"Have you hugged my T-shirt today?"

gam@proper.UUCP (01/29/84)

> From: rick@rochester.UUCP (Rick Floyd)
> 
> I keep hearing lines like "If this group can prevent one suicide, then it
> is worth every bit of computer space and time and communications cost
> used!"
> 
> I've never seen a justification for this philosophy, though. Anyone care
> to try? Religious arguments don't count.

Suicide or suicidal tendancies are a manifestation of severe depression.
Unless we have psychologists/psychiatrists reading this and (possibly)
prescribing anti-depressants by phone-lines, then this newsgroup is
merely cute and philosophical.

"If this group can prevent one suicide..." is such an inspiring, hopeful
expression that it would probably push several suicidals over the edge.
-- 
Gordon A. Moffett
	{ allegra, decvax!decwrl } !amd70!proper
	hplabs!intelca!proper!gam

spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) (01/31/84)

Okay, Rick, in your case we'll make an exception.
-- 
Off the Wall of Gene Spafford
The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332
CSNet:	Spaf @ GATech		ARPA:	Spaf.GATech @ CSNet-Relay
uucp:	...!{akgua,allegra,rlgvax,sb1,unmvax,ulysses,ut-sally}!gatech!spaf

spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) (02/01/84)

I have been gently upbraided for my somewhat flippant reply to Rick a
few days ago. I felt his question was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, and I
intended my answer to be the same. Let me give a more serious reply.  I
went over some of this material about a year ago when I was in a darker
mood, but the present discussion seems to be by new people who may not
have seen my comments.

Let me start this by saying that I have served as a counselor at
college, and that I have worked in a hospital emergency room and on an
ambulance.  I have seen depression.  I have seen rage.  I have seen
despair and suicide and death.  It hurt me each time I saw someone who
tried to kill themself.  One Mother's Day, I saw three attempted
suicides, including one talented and beautiful 16 year old girl who
swallowed 300 aspirin -- she thought she *might* be pregnant and she
couldn't bear the thought of facing her parents.  It took 4 of us to
hold her down so her stomach could be pumped.  That shook me so much
that I walked out of the ER and never returned.

Suicide is an escape.  It is an escape from consequences.  Someone
decides to kill themself when they feel they have no control over their
life, when they feel they cannot face whatever fate has in store for
them.  Sometimes the potential suicide simply cannot face some
person(s) about something, and sometimes it is impossible to face the
painful/dreary/lonely landscape of their lives.  Whatever the cause,
the person has lost the will and resources to cope with it and so they
seek escape.

Botched suicides are cries for help.  They signal that the person
involved feels they have lost control and they need someone outside to
help set their lives aright.  That is one reason why (in our society)
men have a much higher successful suicide rate than women -- it is
ingrained in the modern American male not to need help with his life
and so he doesn't cry out for help.  Besides, a male ego suffering from
feelings of inadequacy certainly does not want to fail in this last,
final act.

Okay, so why do we want to prevent suicides?  Well, I would do it for
the same reasons I would attempt to aid any injured or sick person.
There is a feeling of shared humanity there, a feeling that each life
is worth something which I cannot quantify nor can I judge its worth.
Someone attempting to kill themself needs comfort and help in
straightening out their lives.  Maybe just caring is enough, but often
that just adds another burden to their already too-heavy load.

That doesn't address how you justify it to the person involved,
however.  First off, you can't really convince someone who is that
depressed that no problem is insurmountable, or that time will resolve
almost any human pain. All that you can say is that suicide is
senseless.  It does not make sense to poke out one's eyes if one sees a
bleak landscape, nor does it make sense to blot out one's life if the
current situation is painful.

It is often the most creative and most visionary people who despair of
life.  They dream and they feel, and life is often other than they
might wish.  They need experience to see that all things pass.  No
matter how bad you think it is, something good probably comes later.
Yet, "all that might be" becomes, in a few moments, "all that might
have been" because the principle involved terminates herself/himself.
What a tragedy and loss to us all! Every person matters, just as every
part of the beach is touched by the ripples of any pebble dropped into
the water.

It is only when you give up that you have ever truly lost.  It is our
nature to fight every last inch of the way -- not because we fear
death, but because something inside of us recognizes our life as
special.  It is an illness to wish to cease the fight because the
outlook is bleak.  What advantage is there to be gained? And who can be
so sure that what follows life is a better plain on which to stand?

Often have I been sad and despaired of things improving.  I was wrong.
If I could take a little of the joy I felt when things became better
and send it back in time to myself, how much happier (and impatient!) I
would have been!  The best I can hope to say to someone toying with
their demise is "believe me."  Believe me when I say that hope exists
for things to get better.  Believe me when I say that there are others
out there who will help you shoulder your burdens, or at least help you
build stronger shoulders.  Believe me when I say that there are people
who will care about you and treasure you, but only if you live long
enough to meet them.  And believe me when I say that there will be
times when you will look back at your current feelings with a sense of
disbelief.

Often the greatest courage is simply to face another day, to face the
trial yet again.  That is sometimes tough, but it is something of which
one can be proud -- to have faced life and not run away.  To succeed
you need to get up just one more time than you're knocked down.  It may
be slow, and it may not be easy, but it can be done.

Maybe this all sounds dumb or preachy, but I know of no better way to
present it right now.  I cannot agree with someone that yes, their life
would be better terminated.  And I refuse to be uncaring.  I can only
believe that each life is unique and full of the wonderful potential
that life brings.  Maybe I cannot convince a potential suicide of that,
but I can at least dare them to stick around and let time prove one of
us wrong.  What can possibly be lost with such a choice?

-- 
Off the Wall of Gene Spafford
The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332
CSNet:	Spaf @ GATech		ARPA:	Spaf.GATech @ CSNet-Relay
uucp:	...!{akgua,allegra,rlgvax,sb1,unmvax,ulysses,ut-sally}!gatech!spaf