dimare@ucla-cs.UUCP (01/14/85)
after all, if one doesn't succeed, it is still true that one
tried.
I know a girl that tried it (by munching sleeping pills), and
got no prosecution at all (this was in Costa Rica, not here).
Everybody was very concerned for her, trying to help, and never
ever the idea of punishing her for her act was even mentioned.
Although I wouldn't agree on punishing those that try and fail,
I wonder if one of those crazy lawyers would. What does the law
say? What do people do nowadays? What have they done in the past?
Adolfo
///
P.S. I bet an insanity defense would always win in suicide cases,
wouldn't it?gam@amdahl.UUCP (gam) (01/15/85)
> = Adolfo > Although I wouldn't agree on punishing those that try and fail, > I wonder if one of those crazy lawyers would. What does the law > say? What do people do nowadays? What have they done in the past? In this state (CA) suicide is a "crime" but I think that means that if you don't succede you can be detained for 72hrs for psychiatric examination (whether you want to or not). It is not an arrest but a mandatory detention. Generally speaking, if a person demonstrates that they are a danger to self or others, they can be so detained. -- Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,sun}!amdahl!gam
mjc@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA (Monica Cellio) (01/16/85)
I read this several years ago, so my memory might be fuzzy, but... 1. Historically, suicide was illegal (when? don't recall). The penalty was death (!). This actually isn't as backward as it sounds; a public execution was humiliating for the family, and automatically meant that the state/king/etc claimed the criminal's land, money, etc. 2. In (something like) 9 states in the U.S., it is illegal to attempt suicide. I expect that this is never enforced, and I don't know what the penalties are. Of course, on a wider scale a would-be suicide loses anyway, since it is trivial to get that person locked up for a long, long time. [Flame later, maybe, on this point.] 3. I think it is illegal in every state to aid someone in committing suicide. I don't know if passive aid (failing to interfere) falls under this category, or whether any of this is actually enforced. Come to think of it, might this be where the anti-euthenasia people get their legal backing? [Digression: there are two kinds of euthenasia, active (say, giving the person a lethal injection) and passive (removing all support and letting him die). While I think the latter is starting to get a bit of support, there seem to be an awful lot of people who oppose the former, including most judges from what I can gather.] I've known quite a few people who have attempted to kill themselves (all in the U.S.), and none of them was ever prosecuted. On the other hand, many were committed, which is probably worse. At least prison guards can't say, "I think we'll keep you here a while longer." Doctors can, and it takes the cooperation of someone on the outside to beat the system. (Ever try to call the ACLU from inside a mental hospital?) While things are not on the order of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", they aren't real good and there is plenty of room for improvement in the system. It is still a form of punishment much more than it is a form of rehabilitation, though. -Dragon -- UUCP: ...ucbvax!dual!lll-crg!dragon ARPA: monica.cellio@cmu-cs-cad or dragon@lll-crg
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (Jerry Hollombe) (01/17/85)
>From: mjc@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA (Monica Cellio) >Subject: Re: Is suicide an attempt of murder? >Message-ID: <239@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA> > > Of course, on a wider scale a would-be suicide loses anyway, >since it is trivial to get that person locked up for a long, long time. > >I've known quite a few people who have attempted to kill themselves (all in >the U.S.), and none of them was ever prosecuted. On the other hand, many >were committed, which is probably worse. At least prison guards can't say, >"I think we'll keep you here a while longer." Doctors can, and it takes the >cooperation of someone on the outside to beat the system. (Ever try to call >the ACLU from inside a mental hospital?) While things are not on the order >of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", they aren't real good and there is >plenty of room for improvement in the system. It is still a form of >punishment much more than it is a form of rehabilitation, though. While I can't speak for the rest of the country, the situation in California is quite different. One of our biggest problems when I worked at the LASPC was how to get a suicidal person IN to a mental hospital. Here, IF you can demonstrate a person is a clear and present danger to themselves (or others) you can PROBABLY get them put on a 72 hour hold. (That's three working days -- worst case could be 7 actual days over Thanksgiving week). Beyond that the hospital staff has to go to court and demonstrate that the person is still a danger in order to keep them another two weeks. The patient must be represented by counsel at this hearing and be advised of their rights. After those two weeks, and every three months thereafter the hospital has to go to court AGAIN to keep the patient another three months. Every time, the patient must be represented by counsel and advised of their rights. Bedspace and funding being very tight, hospitals aren't willing to go to this kind of trouble in most cases. As for calling the ACLU, most wards have pay-phones accessible to the patients. I know of at least one case where a woman convinced the local Sherriff's Department and Fire Department paramedics to come and rescue her while she was an in-patient at one of the local hospitals (lots of red faces over that one). She used to call the LASPC from there all the time. I don't know how this situation compares to other places in the country, but at least things aren't always as bad as the movies make them out to be. -- ============================================================================== ... sitting in a pile of junk on the runway, wondering what happened ... The Polymath (Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI If thy CRT offend thee, pluck 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. it out and cast it from thee. Santa Monica, California 90405 (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {vortex,philabs}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe