gsmith@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Gene Ward Smith) (03/15/86)
Well, pardon me for butting in on this conversation. Now that we
have decided that all Moslems are crazed fanatics, that the Japanese
are wonderful for romanticizing suicide like we Americans do violence
(and also because of their willingness to slice up their friends) and
that snakes are a good method (some will give you a *very agonizing*
death, by the way) let us revert to the topic of whether suicide is a
good idea. One point not mentioned so far: a suicide very often leaves
behind friends and relatives who are appalled, shocked, deeply grieved,
guilt-riddled and so forth. Is this good?
Last time I posted, I got a letter saying this whole newsgroup is a
joke. I think it may be wearing a bit thin.
ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
ucbvax!weyl!gsmith "DUMB problem!! DUMB!!!" -- Robert L. Forwardbart@alice.UucP (Bart N. Locanthi) (03/16/86)
>One point not mentioned so far: a suicide very often leaves >behind friends and relatives who are appalled, shocked, deeply grieved, >guilt-riddled and so forth. Is this good? an excellent point. perhaps those seeking painless suicide should consider other people, paticularly their kin. it seems to me that most of the painless methods discussed so far are also easily detectable as suicide. the insurance not paying off only adds insult to injury. >...that the Japanese >are wonderful for romanticizing suicide like we Americans do violence >(and also because of their willingness to slice up their friends)... if i were despondent and saw no way out i think i would be insulted if my friends said "there, there, things aren't so bad - you'll get out of federal prison in 45 years, your wife won't hate you after you've gone in and she takes up with someone else, ...". a second for a japanese understands and agrees that there is only one way out. hmm, i wonder what japanese insurance companies think about suicide? does japan *have* insurance companies? maybe they don't have enough lawyers to support them?
gsmith@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Gene Ward Smith) (03/21/86)
In article <5121@alice.uUCp> bart@alice.UucP (Bart N. Locanthi) writes: >>...that the Japanese >>are wonderful for romanticizing suicide like we Americans do violence >>(and also because of their willingness to slice up their friends)... > >if i were despondent and saw no way out i think i would be insulted if my >friends said "there, there, things aren't so bad - you'll get out of federal >prison in 45 years, your wife won't hate you after you've gone in and she >takes up with someone else, ...". a second for a japanese understands and >agrees that there is only one way out. My point is that a "second for a Japanese" is all too willing to think this when it is manifestly not true. I got a letter roasting me for this sentiment; but the truth hurts sometimes. In the US you would never hear a story about two young lovers who realized they had achieved the heights of human bliss; so as a consequence, they walked arm-in-arm up a volcano and jumped in. This kind of bilge is a part of Japanese culture, and sometimes they act on it. Was there "only one way out" for Yukio Mishima? Is not the suicide of Mishima the product of this Japanese societal sickness, just as all the murders in the US are a product of our different sort of warpage? I say yes, and I think a lot of you turkeys sound like ghouls and sickos. ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720 Fifty flippant frogs / Walked by on flippered feet And with their slime they made the time / Unnaturally fleet.
norman@alice.UucP (norman) (03/22/86)
> This kind of bilge is a part of Japanese culture, > and sometimes they act on it. do you drive an automobile?
weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener) (03/24/86)
In article <12526@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> gsmith@brahms.UUCP (Gene Ward Smith) writes: > Was there "only one way out" for Yukio >Mishima? Is not the suicide of Mishima the product of this Japanese >societal sickness, Picking Yukio Mishima as an example of your point is extremely poor, Gene. Writers and artists in general seem to have a higher suicide rate than normal is the impression I have. Nobody would say the suicide of Hemingway is the product of American societal sickness, but pick a Japanese and pow! you've analyzed the reasons right there. Perhaps the fact that Kawabata(*) offed himself too, at about the same time, left an extra strong impression. But Oe is still going strong. And I recall Bankei died naturally. (*)my memory is failing here: I mean the author of _The Snow Country_. ucbvax!brahms!weemba Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener) (03/24/86)
In article <12526@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> gsmith@brahms.UUCP (Gene Ward Smith) writes: >In article <5121@alice.uUCp> bart@alice.UucP (Bart N. Locanthi) writes: > >>>...that the Japanese >>>are wonderful for romanticizing suicide like we Americans do violence >>>(and also because of their willingness to slice up their friends)... > >the heights of human bliss; so as a consequence, they walked arm-in-arm up >a volcano and jumped in. This kind of bilge is a part of Japanese culture, >and sometimes they act on it. The ----man who is caught spying or the like in -----ia, is given 24 hours to arrange his affairs, and takes the honorable way out is romanticized in Western culture too. ucbvax!brahms!weemba Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
gsmith@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Gene Ward Smith) (03/24/86)
In article <5155@alice.uUCp> norman@alice.UucP (norman) writes: >> This kind of bilge is a part of Japanese culture, >> and sometimes they act on it. > >do you drive an automobile? No. Do you? ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720 Imagine what the world would be like if football was a worthy ritual performed in stadiums but mathematics was a misunderstood activity ignored by almost all.