wa371@sdcc12.UUCP (Senior Gnome) (12/12/85)
Can someone please explain the difference between ASCII and ANSI protocol terminals? Do ANSI terminals not use the ACSII character set and encoding? Thanks Bernd <bear-nd> *** hooray for USENET *** UUCP: ...!ucbvax!sdcsvax!sdcc12!wa371, ARPA: sdcsvax!sdcc12!wa371@nosc
vch@rruxo.UUCP (Kerro Panille) (12/15/85)
>Can someone please explain the difference between ASCII and ANSI protocol >terminals? Do ANSI terminals not use the ACSII character set and >encoding? ANSI is an acronym (I'm not sure what), but it's a standard like ASCII, except that ASCII refers to the character encoding, and ANSI is a standard for such things as cursor addressing. It was an attempt to remove the problem of termcaps and terminfos by making all terminals act the same. Too bad most terminal manufacturers haven't taken this up. A vt100 is an ANSI terminal, as well as any vt100 compatible. Note that the vt52 isn't ANSI, but it is ASCII. BTW, I've never heard of an ANSI terminal that wasn't ASCII. -- Vince Hatem ---------------- A Bell Communications Research | UZI |----------|_ _ _\/ T Raritan River Software Systems Center | |----------| /\ & 444 Hoes Lane ---------------- ROGER GUTS T 4D-360 / /\ DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' Piscataway, NJ 08854 / / NECKTIES (201) 699-4869 /-----/ ...ihnp4!rruxo!vch TRUE GRIT MYSTERIES - The detective series for those who NEVER eat quiche! (WARNING - MAY BE EMOTIONALLY DISTURBING TO HAMSTER LOVERS)
madmonk@chinet.UUCP (William M. Fischer) (12/15/85)
In article <138@rruxo.UUCP> vch@rruxo.UUCP (Kerro Panille) writes: >>Can someone please explain the difference between ASCII and ANSI protocol >>terminals? Do ANSI terminals not use the ACSII character set and >>encoding? > >ANSI is an acronym (I'm not sure what), but it's a standard like ASCII, >Vince Hatem ---------------- A American National Standards Institute (ANSI). I think the current standard is called ANSI X3.64. -- -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Nemo me impune lacessit" Bill Fischer madmonk@chinet.UUCP =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
barmar@mit-eddie.UUCP (Barry Margolin) (12/16/85)
When people say that a terminal uses the ANSI protocol, they are
generally referring to ANS X3.64, which defines an extension to ASCII.
ASCII defines a single-byte character set (originally 7-bit, but
recently extended to 8-bit). It defines the meanings of various escape
sequences, multiple-byte sequences of codes beginning with ESC, which
provide operations like cursor positioning, character/line
insert/delete, erasing, and color/attribute selection. ASCII primarily
defines printing characters and a few basic controls (e.g. carriage
return, line feed, XON/XOFF, plus ESC and DLE which allow for
extension).
--
Barry Margolin
ARPA: barmar@MIT-Multics
UUCP: ..!genrad!mit-eddie!barmargwyn@brl-tgr.ARPA (Doug Gwyn <gwyn>) (12/16/85)
Strictly speaking, ASCII is the American Standard Code for Information Interchange, of which there is actually more than one version (I think the last one was in 1968, but I'm not sure). This is a character code used almost everywhere except in mainframe markets (although IBM was a participant in establishing the first ASCII spec, they went off and introduced EBCDIC instead of conforming to the standard). ANSI is the American National Standards Institute. The appellation "ANSI" applied to terminals is normally short for "ANSI X3.64-conforming", and indicates at least a subset of the X3.64 escape sequences are supported by the terminal. This in itself doesn't mean much, but for marketing reasons most so-called "ANSI" terminals are nearly compatible with the DEC VT-100.
hes@ecsvax.UUCP (Henry Schaffer) (12/16/85)
> >Can someone please explain the difference between ASCII and ANSI protocol > >terminals? Do ANSI terminals not use the ACSII character set and > >encoding? > > ANSI is an acronym (I'm not sure what), but it's a standard like ASCII, American National Standards Institute has many standards, one of which is the American Standard Code for Information Interchange, and another one (something like X3.64 ?) is for cursor control, etc. including the proper escape sequences. > > -- > Vince Hatem --henry schaffer
neal@weitek.UUCP (Neal Bedard) (12/17/85)
In article <138@rruxo.UUCP>, vch@rruxo.UUCP (Kerro Panille) writes: > >Can someone please explain the difference between ASCII and ANSI protocol > >terminals? Do ANSI terminals not use the ACSII character set and > >encoding? > > ANSI is an acronym (I'm not sure what), but it's a standard like ASCII, ASCII = American Standard Code for Information Interchange ASCII codes are the binary values for a predefined 128-character set. ANSI = American National Standards Institute (i.e., the organization that promulagates the standard, not the stanard itself.) The actual standard(s) in question are ANSI X3.64-1977 and ANSI X3.41-1974. The ANSI *protocol* referred to is a command set of built out of ASCII characters (is ASCII actually spelled out in the ANSI standard, or is the character set arbitrary?) I've never seen a non-ASCII `ANSI' terminal, anyway... Actually, the ANSI command set is basically a major subset of that for a VT100 (there are a few `DEC private' codes.) `VT100-compatible' terminals are sometimes referred to as `ANSI' terminals (probably to avoid having to state that VT is a DEC trademark... :-)) There are other commonly used terminal command protocols, but I believe the VT100 set (and therefore ANSI) is the most popular among ASCII terminal vendors. The ANSI protocol centers around a `control sequence introducer' (CSI), a string of decimal parameters and a `final character'. For example, to move the cursor forward a ten spaces on a VT100, the sequence is: <ESC>[10C (`<ESC>' is the ASCII character `escape', value 27 decimal) `<ESC>[' is the CSI, `10' is a numeric parameter, `C' is the final character. Note that the terminal doesn't really know what to do until it processes the final character. If the final character were instead `D', the cursor would move *backward* by the same amount. A complete desciption of the ANSI protocol may be obtained by contacting: Sales Department American National Standards Institute 1430 Broadway New York, New York 10018 or just rip off someone's VT100 manual :-) Hope this helps. -Neal -- 55. It's a law we can do away with. UUCP: {turtlevax, resonex, cae780}!weitek!neal
barmar@mit-eddie.UUCP (Barry Margolin) (12/20/85)
In article <346@weitek.UUCP> neal@weitek.UUCP (Neal Bedard) writes: >The actual standard(s) in question are ANSI X3.64-1977 and ANSI X3.41-1974. > >The ANSI *protocol* referred to is a command set of built out of ASCII >characters (is ASCII actually spelled out in the ANSI standard, or is the >character set arbitrary?) I've never seen a non-ASCII `ANSI' terminal, >anyway... ANS X3.64 is an extension of ANS X3.41 (ASCII), so an ANSI terminal is by definition an ASCII terminal. ANS X3.64 is a particular control sequence repertoire defined using the scheme described in another standard (whose number I do not recall), titled something like "Code Extension Techniques for American Standard Code for Information Interchange". This latter standard is the one that defines the syntax of escape sequences. ANS X3.64 specifies the semantics of a particular set of escape sequences which use that syntax. -- Barry Margolin ARPA: barmar@MIT-Multics UUCP: ..!genrad!mit-eddie!barmar
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (12/20/85)
> Actually, the ANSI command set is basically a major subset of that for a > VT100 (there are a few `DEC private' codes.)... Sorry, wrong, it's the other way around. ANSI X3.64 is an *immense* shopping list of escape sequences; no device on Earth implements more than a modest subset of them. The VT100 implements a modest subset (too modest, they forgot some important ones) plus using a few "reserved for private use" sequences for DEC-specific things. Saying that something is an "ANSI" terminal is strictly meaningless, since X3.64 was *intended* to be a shopping list: "*if* you implement function X, this is the escape sequence to use for it". In practice, what "ANSI" usually means is that it implements approximately the same subset as the VT100, often with a few additions to fix some of the VT100's botches. -- Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry
robert@gitpyr.UUCP (Robert Viduya) (12/20/85)
>neal@weitek.UUCP (Neal Bedard) (neal@weitek.UUCP, <346@weitek.UUCP>): > > The actual standard(s) in question are ANSI X3.64-1977 and ANSI X3.41-1974. > > The ANSI *protocol* referred to is a command set of built out of ASCII > characters (is ASCII actually spelled out in the ANSI standard, or is the > character set arbitrary?) I've never seen a non-ASCII `ANSI' terminal, > anyway... > I read the X3.64 standard a few months ago and I don't believe that ASCII is explicitly spelled out in all it's gory detail. Rather, the document has as prerequisites a couple of other ANSI standards (X3.41 was one of them). I guess this means that an ANSI X3.64 terminal is, by definition, an ASCII terminal as well. As for availability of the document, you might try a library. I found the documents in the GaTech library. I also recommend looking up the ISO 6429 standard, which is ISO's version of X3.64. The two standards are almost identical as far as control sequences go, with the sole exception that 6429 has added provisions for setting color by extending the Set-Graphic-Rendition control sequence. I'm not completely sure, but I believe that the ISO standard is a superset of the ANSI standard. I also found the ISO standard a lot easier to read than the ANSI standard. robert -- Robert Viduya 01111000 Office of Computing Services Georgia Institute of Technology UUCP: ..gatech!gitpyr!robert ..gatech!gt-oscar!robert ..gatech!gt-felix!robert BITNET: CC100RV @ GITVM1
gat@inuxd.UUCP (G Taylor) (12/30/85)
> > ANS X3.64 is an extension of ANS X3.41 (ASCII), so an ANSI terminal is > by definition an ASCII terminal. ANS X3.64 is a particular control > sequence repertoire defined using the scheme described in another > standard (whose number I do not recall), titled something like "Code > Extension Techniques for American Standard Code for Information > Just to set the record straight, the ASCII character set is defined by the ANSI X3.4 standard ("American National Standard Code for Information Interchange") and NOT by X3.41 ("American National Standard Code Extension Techniques for Use with the 7-Bit Coded Character Set of American National Standard Code for Information Interchange"). Thus X3.4 defines the basic 7-bit ASCII character set, X3.41 defines a technique for extending that character set, and X3.64 provides a standard coding for a HUGE array of controls for 2-dimensional imaging devices. Incidentally, X3.64 really only pays lip service to X3.41 since it uses a code extension technique that isn't really within the spirit of that standard (and they say as much in the introduction to the X3.64 standard). One point that several people have questioned here is whether X3.64 requires the use of ASCII. The answer is simply YES; the title of X3.64 is "American National Standard Additional Controls for Use with American National Standard Code for Information Interchange." Notice that the final 7 words of the title are the proper name for ASCII. The ANSI standards are not entertaining reading but they are interesting. There are several other standards that pertain to this general discussion that haven't been dragged into the fray, but rather than prolong this discussion on the net I would invite those interested to find a good library and browse through the standards for themselves. Glen A. Taylor AT&T (Consumer Products Division) Indianapolis, IN (317) 845-3709 inuxd!gat