blarson@usc-oberon.UUCP (Bob Larson) (07/30/86)
After using a Wyse 60 for a couple of weeks (on a 10 day free trial),
I have mixed feelings about it. Our department will not get any
unless they fix two problems with the Adds Viewpoint 60 emulation
mode.
I like the keyboard layout (ascii model, they have several), it has a
large contol key immediatly ajacent to the A, and in general is close
to the layout proposed on info-terms.
In native mode, it works fine other than the fact it is rather slow.
(Needs handshaking to work at 9600 baud.) One problem is it can't
handle many characters after the handshake request, Prime's habbit of
sending up to 128 characters after the handshake confuses it at times,
with strange symptoms. (Reminicent of the problems on a VT100.) I do
like the ability to put the terminal in 43 lines of 132 characters,
small but readable. (Only the g looks funny.)
In viewpoint 60 mode, it had 3 problems: the clear to end of line
sequence (esc K) does a clear to end of screen (esc k), (this problem
will supposedly be fixed in rev b of the firmware) it does not emulate
the viewpoint 60 in the regent 40 mode (so as far as we are concerned,
screen atributes don't work), it is slower than a real viewpoint 60
(so padding for a viewpoint 60 is hopelessly inadiquate).
The aux port does not understatnd dtr handshake from the printer, and
possibly requires a strange cable, I didn't bother to get it working.
The calculator, calender, clock, and ascii code chart built in are
cute, but not a deciding factor in terminal selection as far as I am
concerned.
Warning: these termcaps do not have adiquate padding.
# Experimental wyse 60 native mode, with inadiquate padding
W6|wyse60|wyse 60:al=4\EE:am:bs:cd=\EY:ce=\ET:cl=3\E+:cm=\E=%+ %+ :co#80:\
:dc=3\EW:dl=4\ER:dm=:do=^J:ed=:ei=\Er:ho=\E{:ic=:im=\Eq:li#24:\
:mi:ms:nd=^L:se=\EG0:so=\EG4:sr=\Ej:is=4000\E~4\Ee1:\
:ue=\EG0:ul=\EG8:up=^K:
# ditto in 132 col 43 line mode. Note different cm.
W7|wyse60b|wyse 60 132 col 43 line:is=255\E~4\E`;\Ee+:\
:li#43:co#132:cm=\Ea%i%dR%dC:tc=wyse60:
--
Bob Larson
Arpa: Blarson@Usc-Eclb.Arpa or blarson@usc-oberon.arpa
Uucp: (ihnp4,hplabs,tektronix)!sdcrdcf!usc-oberon!blarsonpaul@msdc.UUCP (Paul Manno) (08/05/86)
My thanks to Bob Larson for his findings with the Wyse 60
terminal. One of our customers is planning to purchase lots
of these terminals but now, I'm interested in digging up more
information about them. Our limited testing (on a VAX with
32 byte clists) proved successful using the native mode but we
too noticed frequent flow control activity at 9600 bps.
I would appreciate any other opinions about the Wyse 60 terminal
or other's experiences with the Wyse terminal line. In the past,
I've heard nothing but good reviews. Are these problems with the
60 likely an isolated new product problem?
Also, does anyone out there have any opinions about the CIE 50+
terminal (both ANSI and ASCII mode with a VT220-style keyboard)?
I'd prefer mail responses and I will be happy to summarize replies
to the network (providing there are any). Thanks.
Paul Manno Medical Systems Development Corp.
paul@msdc.UUCP ..{akgua, gatech, ihnp4, mcnc}!msdc!pauldavec@omepd.UUCP (08/08/86)
The group I work with ordered 30 Wyse 60 terminals the day they
were officially announced back in April. We specified the white
phosphor versions with the native keyboards. Most of them are used
in native mode, since it is very similar to the WY-50 that was being
used here by some previously.
We have found them to be quite usable terminals, although we have
run into several problems. We selected the WY-60 because of
number of lines on the screen, hidden attributes, keyboard layout,
user interface, and of course, price. It had more features
we wanted/needed than almost any other terminal in its price
range [nearest competitor was the Falco 500; rejected for price
(we didn't need full ANSI), keyboard layout, "rogue-like" setup
interface("you are in a maze of twisted passages that all look
alike")].
The 9600 baud handshaking requirement has been a bother for us
also, especially the emacs users. One user has gone so far as
to rlogin to another machine and then back again in order to
slow things down enough to not require flow-control.
Following is a complaint list from local users that I compiled recently
at the request of Wyse factory support:
- The keyboard is often ignored when a lot of output is being sent to
the terminal at the higher baud rates, or when the terminal is doing
screen clears, etc. Wyse has admitted that the keyboard scan rate
is extremely slow and at low priority. You cannot, for example,
invoke the "vi" editor and then type ahead as the screen is being
painted, as many input characters may be lost (often the beginning
"/" of a search pattern, and then the following pattern characters
are interpreted as vi commands!).
Another user has written a program to exercise the graphics
capabilities of the terminal by having it draw various geometric
shapes continuously on the screen. The slow scan rate often prevents
interrupts from being received, requiring the process to be killed
from another terminal.
- Tab stops get set incorrectly when the screen is in 80 column
mode and you try to set tops off the edge of the screen. Also,
you cannot reliably switch back and forth between 80- and 132-
column mode without the tab stops being messed up. Escape characters
also often are lost during this time.
- Command sequences intended for the terminal show up on the screen and
the intended operation doesn't happen. In other words, the sequences
aren't recognized as commands. Similarly, tabs are sometimes set
at the wrong columns. One guess as to the cause of the problem is
that there are holes in input flow control and that the input buffer
is being overrun, causing characters to be lost. It may be spending
too much time at interrupt level.
- The terminal clock loses time. If you load the terminal, it loses a
lot of time. Sending continuous clear rectangle commands at 9600
baud will make time stand still. (It will also severely starve the
keyboard.) The clock also stops when the terminal is powered off,
instead of being powered via shutdown power or batteries.
- ^S/^Q stuff doesn't seem quite right. When working under VMS
(telnet'd through a 4.2 Vax), the host VAX often gets a ^S
and stops output, but not the corresponding ^Q. (This may
be a telnet/UNIX/VMS problem, but has never been seen with the
WY50, AAA, or other terminal here.)
We were told that new firmware is soon forthcoming. I'm not sure
if firmware can solve all the problems; it appears that in going
from the WY-50 to the WY-60, they added a lot of features without
proportionately increasing the processing power to implement those
features. A lot of the problems we've seen, though, are indeed the
kind often seen in a freshly-released product, and hopefully will be
rectified soon.
Here are several termcaps for the WY-60 that have been in use here
for ~3 months. Of course the vendor never tells you how much delay
you need to add for each function, and we haven't had time to sit down
and time each action, so the paddings are likely to be way off in
several cases. We depend more on flow-control to keep things slowed
down enough, and will continue to do so until the firmware stabilizes.
w6|wy60|wy60-43|Wyse 60 w/ 43 lines:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`\72\Ee+:\
:vs=\EZ1+\E[A\177\EZ1,\E[B\177\EZ1-\E[D\177\EZ1.\E[C\177\EZ1*\E[H\177:\
:ve=\EZ0+^K\177\EZ0,^J\177\EZ0-^H\177\EZ0.^L\177\EZ0*^^\177:\
:al=\EE:am:bs:bt=\EI:pt:ct=\E0:st=\E1:ce=\ET:cm=\Ea%i%2R%3C:\
:cl=150\E*:cd=150\EY:co#80:dc=\EW:dl=\ER:ei=\Er:ho=\E{:\
:LC:im=\Eq:ku=\E[A:kd=\E[B:kr=\E[C:kl=\E[D:kh=\E[H:k0=\EQ:\
:k1=\EW:k2=\ET:k3=\Er:k4=\EE:k5=\ER:k6=\EY:k7=\Eq:k8=\EK:\
:k9=\EJ:li#43:mi:mb=\EG2:md=\EG4:mh=\EGp:mr=\EG4:me=\EG0:\
:so=\EG4:se=\EG0:us=\EG8:ue=\EG0:nd=^L:up=^K:\
:hs:ts=\EF:fs=\r:ds=\EF\r:
ws|wy60-s|wy60-42|Wyse 60 w/ status line:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`\72\Ee*:li#42:i2=\Ez\177\EA1t\Ez(\r:\
:hs:ts=\Ez(:fs=\r:ds=\EA10\Ez(\r:tc=wy60:
wa|wy60-w|wy60-43-w|Wyse 60 wide - 132 columns:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`;\Ee+:co#132:tc=wy60:
wd|wy60-w-s|wy60-42-w|Wyse 60 wide - 132 columns w/ sysline:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`;\Ee*:co#132:tc=wy60-s:
wb|wy60-24|wy60-24-s|Wyse 60 with 24 lines on the screen w/ sysline:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`\72\Ee(:li#24:tc=wy60-s:
wc|wy60-24-w|Wyse 60 with 24 lines by 132 columns:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`;\Ee(:li#24:tc=wy60-s:
#
# Reverse video versions of Wyse 60
#
wr|wy60-rv|wy60-43-rv|Wyse wy-60 w/ 43 lines:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`\72\Ee+\EA04\EA14\EA2|\EA3|:tc=wy60:
wS|wy60-s-rv|wy60-rv-s|wy60-42-rv|Wyse 60 w/ status line:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`\72\Ee*\EA04\EA14\EA2|\EA3|:li#42:\
:i2=\Ez\177\EA1t\Ez(\r:hs:ts=\Ez(:fs=\r:ds=\EA14\Ez(\r:tc=wy60:
wA|wy60-w-rv|wy60-43-w-rv|Wyse 60 132 columns reverse video:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`;\Ee+\EA04\EA14\EA2|\EA3|:co#132:tc=wy60:
wD|wy60-w-s-rv|wy60-42-w-rv|Wyse 60 132 columns reverse video w/ sysline:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`;\Ee*\EA04\EA14\EA2|\EA3|:co#132:tc=wy60-s-rv:
wB|wy60-24-rv|wy60-24-s-rv|Wyse 60 with 24 lines on the screen w/ sysline:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`\72\Ee(\EA04\EA14\EA2|\EA3|:li#24:tc=wy60-s-rv:
wC|wy60-24-w-rv|Wyse 60 with 24 lines by 132 columns:\
:is=\E~4\Ee6\Ee1\Ec21\E`;\Ee(\EA04\EA14\EA2|\EA3|:li#24:tc=wy60-s-rv:
Dave Cobbley
Intel Corporation
Hillsboro, Oregon
Phone: (503) 681-4157
Usenet: {decvax,ucbvax}!tektronix!ogcvax!inteloa!omepd!davec