jpm@calmasd.UUCP (John McNally) (01/30/85)
[arghhhh... ]
Please excuse what will seem a very naive set of questions for
this newsgroup, but I need some info and don't seem to have
anywhere else to turn to.
I am working at a 4.2BSD site. This has nothing to do with my
questions, except to explain that all of this information is being
sought by someone whose VAX system is currently running VMS
(version unknown by me).
I told my friends about UUCP, mail, news, etc. and that there might
be a UNIX-emulator (whatever that means!) that runs under VMS.
Well, that was the start of all my problems, because they said,
"Can you find out about that for me?" My sys admin doesn't know
much more about it than I do, so I am turning to this newsgroup
for help. (The first thing that I said to my friends was to run a
UNIX shop, but their product is VMS-based and they aren't about to
change.) So, here are my questions:
1. First, is eunice a UNIX-emulator for VMS? I assume the answer
to this is yes, or otherwise this message wouldn't be in this
newsgroup. If the answer is no, then the rest of these questions
are moot, unless there are UNIX-emulators other than eunice.
2. Just what does it emulate? C shell? Support C compiler and C
calls to the OS (like sleep, exec, pipe, etc.)? UUCP, mail, news?
UNIX i/o philosophy?
3. Who distributes it, how much does it cost, what support is
available, are there multiple versions, are there multiple vendors?
4. What versions of VMS does it require/desire? I don't know
much about VMS, so I don't even know if this is an intelligent
question. Are there any limitations to what machines it will run
on (beyond the obvious requirement of VMS, which I assume means at
least VAX only).
5. Is it worth bothering with?
Please send responses by mail if possible. Otherwise, post them
if you have to. I'll read net.eunice for awhile to watch out for
responses.
Thanks in advance.
Standard trademark acks/disclaimers implied.
--
John McNally Calma 11080 Roselle St. San Diego CA 92121
...{ucbvax,decvax}!sdcsvax!calmasd!jpm (619)-458-3230gordon@cae780.UUCP (Brian Gordon) (02/03/85)
In article <281@calmasd.UUCP> jpm@calmasd.UUCP (John McNally) writes: > >1. First, is eunice a UNIX-emulator for VMS? I assume the answer >to this is yes, or otherwise this message wouldn't be in this >newsgroup. Your assumption is right. >2. Just what does it emulate? C shell? Support C compiler and C >calls to the OS (like sleep, exec, pipe, etc.)? UUCP, mail, news? >UNIX i/o philosophy? > When all goes well, it emulates a 4.1 UNIX environment - sh, csh, cc, sleep, ... It uses the nativs VMS file system, but provides the normal 4.1bsd access to it. >3. Who distributes it, how much does it cost, what support is >available, are there multiple versions, are there multiple vendors? It is distributed by The Wollogong Group (mail me a request for the address if you can't get it otherwise - I'm at home at the moment, without references). There is, at any given moment, one version of the 4.1bsd version, although another (Sys V?) version will appear soon. The cost is non-trivial (like $16K - again without references handy) for normal (non-academic) users, with normal maintenance. There is also a deluxe maintenance version. There is only one distributer, and a Unix license is required (available through TWG, if necessary, I believe.) >4. What versions of VMS does it require/desire? I don't know >much about VMS, so I don't even know if this is an intelligent >question. Are there any limitations to what machines it will run >on (beyond the obvious requirement of VMS, which I assume means at >least VAX only). I have used it under VMS 3.5/6/7/8 (yes, there IS TOO a 3.8), and have heard from reliable sources that a 4.0 version will be available soon. >5. Is it worth bothering with? A non-trivial question, depending in part on exactly what you want to do with it. I'll be glad to enter into private correspondance with interested parties. FROM: Brian G. Gordon, CAE Systems USENET: {ucbvax, ihnp4, decvax!decwrl}!amd!cae780!gordon {nsc, resonex, qubix, hplabs}!cae780!gordon USNAIL: 1333 Bordeaux Drive, Sunnyvale, CA 94089 AT&T: (408)745-1440
chip@t4test.UUCP (Chip Rosenthal) (02/13/85)
> = gordon@cae780.UUCP (Brian Gordon) >> = article <281@calmasd.UUCP> jpm@calmasd.UUCP (John McNally) Unfortunately, the original message didn't make it here. Here is my $0.02 worth... >>2. Just what does it emulate? > When all goes well, it emulates a 4.1 UNIX environment - sh, csh, cc, There are a couple things which are either missing or not well supported. The 'missing' program which I find a pain is 'cron'. Although I've heard rumor of people porting cron to Eunice painlessly, TWG distributes the following as cron: +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | echo cron is not implemented. | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ No joke...that is the contents of /etc/cron. Yes, you can implement scheduling with VMS batch jobs, but somehow I find having a single crontab much more appealing than zillions of /AFTER= jobs. An example of a poorly supported program is, unfortunately, UUCP. Yes it is there and it runs, but we had to create some mother .COM files to get UUCP to do anything near what we want. >>4. What versions of VMS does it require/desire? > I have used it under VMS 3.5/6/7/8 (yes, there IS TOO a 3.8), and have > heard from reliable sources that a 4.0 version will be available soon. I also hear rumors of a BSD4.2 version. >>5. Is it worth bothering with? > A non-trivial question, depending in part on exactly what you want to do > with it. Brian's answer is an excellent one. In general, if you don't need Eunice, don't buy it. But, Eunice has been extremely successful for us. We need to run a lot of software which requires a VMS environment. We were willing to make some sacrifices which Eunice implies in order to get a Unix environment and Unix utilities. (The utilities are key! If all I wanted was a shell I could buy that from DEC.) What are those sacrifices? Performance is one (e.g. stats are slow). Occasional wierd flakies is another (anybody remember the 'vi' dies bug?). Sure, Eunice has problems and I can't make an unreserved recommendation. However, I don't really have any qualms over the decision to run it on our machines--it has worked out well. -- Chip Rosenthal, Intel/Santa Clara {cbosgd,idi,intelca,icalqa,kremvax,qubix,ucscc} ! {t4test,t12tst} ! {chip,news}