firby@sask.UUCP (06/12/83)
What I really want to know is who are "the three men I admire most/ The
Father, Son and the Holy Ghost" referring to? In the context of the song,
it must be some good old fashioned rockers who died in the late sixties,
but it surely can't be Morrison or Hendrix, because that's the kind of music
he complains about in the song.
Any thoughts?
joannezzz@mit-eddi.UUCP (Mike Konopik) (06/14/83)
"the three men I admire most...", I believe, refer to the obvious theological trio. This would naturally follow from the previous verse where he "saw Satan lauging with delight" at the situation in the song... No? -Mike
jcw@cvl.UUCP (06/15/83)
>"the three men I admire most...", I believe, refer to the obvious theological >trio. This would naturally follow from the previous verse where he "saw >Satan lauging with delight" at the situation in the song... No? I heard that "Satan" referred to Mick Jagger, and was not a biblical reference, so I imagine that the "Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost" mean other than the obvious. Anyway, why would a song that is built on numerous metaphors (even the title) suddenly start being blatant? -Jay Weber {seismo!rlgvax!cvl!jcw}
finn@pur-ee.UUCP (06/16/83)
The lines:
the three men i admire most,
the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost,
they caught the last train for the coast,
the day the music died.
refer to the day that Buddy Holly and two other famous musicians
died in a plane crash (hence the reference to someone he considered
the Father of modern music, and the two others). I always forget
who the other two were. Would someone who knows please fill in the
details? Just listening to American Pie, it doesn't seem to make a
whole lot of sense, but if you listen closely you may find that isn't
true. In fact, i have heard that every line in the song has some sort
of meaning (such as the reference to the trinity), although i certainly
haven't deciphered them all. Any other observations about this classic?
dave hesselberth
Purdue University
{harpo, decvax, ucbvax}!pur-ee!finnpaul@uofm-cv.UUCP (06/16/83)
2,000,000 people will answer this, but what the hell ... Buddy Holly, The Big Bopper, and Richie Valens is the trio that gets my vote. Tragic plane crash, etc. If not Richie Valens, then someone related to Mimi Farina.
paul@uofm-cv.UUCP (06/16/83)
Oh, that obvious theological trio! Am I the only unreconstructed lonely teenaged soul out there? I still have fond memories of contemplating my Chevy as my only salvation as the sun rose after a disasterous prom evening.
tconn@inuxc.UUCP (06/16/83)
The reference to father, son and holy ghost were Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, and J.P. Richardson alias the Big Bopper.
raf@loux.UUCP (06/16/83)
The Big Bopper was one Hello baaaaaby.... Will I what???? Ron Flannery P.S. I wanted to reply with mail but it's not working. I get garbage on the screen. Anyone know why and what to do about it on 2.10?
alfred@ctvax.UUCP (08/04/84)
#N:ctvax:39000023:000:406
ctvax!alfred Aug 4 10:31:00 1984
Many pardons if this has been asked before...
I have heard a rumor from a friend that
Don McLean has at least on one occasion
explained all the symbolism in "American
Pie". Does anyone have a pointer to or
copy of such an article/interview/whatever?
Thanks,
Alfred Correira
Computer*Thought Corp.
UUCP: ...{nbires,cornell,convex,ut-sally}!ctvax!alfred
Arpanet: alfred.ct@CSNet-Relay
CSNet: alfred@ctkumard@sunybcs.UUCP (Deepak Kumar) (06/11/85)
I knew it would come to use someday. These are the responses I got
from Joey Doernberg, who had them compiled from various replies
six months ago.
---------------------------------------
I once thought that "And as I watched them on the stage, my hands were
clenched in fists of rage, no angel born in hell, could break that
satan's spell" referred to Hell's Angels riding in on motorcycles and
busting up a concert.
However, my wife saw Don McLean on a talk show once, and they asked
him about the meaning of the lyrics, and he said they were meaningless.
People come up with amazing, unintended interpretations. I recall the
Chicago song "sitting crosslegged on the floor, twenty five or six to
four" was often interpreted as a ratio for mixing drugs. Chicago says
it is a reference to the time of day.
____________________________________________________________________
I thought the song was about the transition from the time of Buddy
Holly, Richie Valens, and the Big Bopper (marked by their death) through
the Beattles, the Rolling Stones, and electronic rock. That time
coincided with the end of "innocence" in America, and whether they are
causally related or merely coincidental, they are referenced throughout
the song.
________________________________________________________________________
I've heard fairly complete interpretations of it in the distant past. I
can recall a few bits and pieces:
Of course, the "day the music died" refers not only to Buddy Holly, but the
Big Bopper and a couple of others (lesser known, and I forget who they
were) who all died in the same plane crash.
"jester" -> Bob Dylan; the "jester on the sidelines in a cast" refers to
Dylan's serious motorcycle accident.
"...while Sergeants played a marching tune..." -> Beatles, as in "Sergeant
Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.
"Lennon read a book on Marx..." obvious reference to a phase of John
Lennon's life.
I seem to remember that the "King" was Presley, but there are some pieces
of the lyrics going thru my head that don't make sense.
_____________________________________________________________________
Your's is an interesting question. The prologue and possibly the
epilogue are definitely references to the death of Buddy Holly. As for
the verses in the song, I've always considered them Don's synopsis and
observations of popular music and society up to that time. He references
certain songs popular in the fifties:
"Did you write the book of love?"
Popular song: "Who wrote the book of love?"
"... cause the Bible tells me so"
Popular song: "Because the Bible tells me so"
and certain songs in the sixties:
"The birds flew off with a fallout shelter-
eight miles high and fallin' faaaaaaaaast"
Popular song: "Eight Miles High" by the Byrds
I think you get the idea.
He also makes references to school dances ("I know that you're in love
with him cause I saw you dancin' in the gym. You both kicked off you're
shoes...."), the Beatles and Charles Manson in the same line ("Helter Skelter
in the summer swelter..."), etc. There are many more examples I could list
but I think you get the picture. Of course, we could be blowing this all
out of proportion, and Don McClean might have been getting a big chuckle
out of all of this for some time now. Who really knows?
I once thought that "And as I watched them on the stage, my hands were
clenched in fists of rage, no angel born in hell, could break that
satan's spell" referred to Hell's Angels riding in on motorcycles and
busting up a concert.
However, my wife saw Don McLean on a talk show once, and they asked
him about the meaning of the lyrics, and he said they were meaningless.
People come up with amazing, unintended interpretations. I recall the
Chicago song "sitting crosslegged on the floor, twenty five or six to
four" was often interpreted as a ratio for mixing drugs. Chicago says
it is a reference to the time of day.
___________________________________________________________________
I thought the song was about the transition from the time of Buddy
Holly, Richie Valens, and the Big Bopper (marked by their death) through
the Beattles, the Rolling Stones, and electronic rock. That time
coincided with the end of "innocence" in America, and whether they are
causally related or merely coincidental, they are referenced throughout
the song.
___________________________________________________________________
I've heard fairly complete interpretations of it in the distant past. I
can recall a few bits and pieces:
Of course, the "day the music died" refers not only to Buddy Holly, but the
Big Bopper and a couple of others (lesser known, and I forget who they
were) who all died in the same plane crash.
"jester" -> Bob Dylan; the "jester on the sidelines in a cast" refers to
Dylan's serious motorcycle accident.
"...while Sergeants played a marching tune..." -> Beatles, as in "Sergeant
Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.
"Lennon read a book on Marx..." obvious reference to a phase of John
Lennon's life.
I seem to remember that the "King" was Presley, but there are some pieces
of the lyrics going thru my head that don't make sense.
--
--------------
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--------------jims@hcrvax.UUCP (Jim Sullivan) (06/12/85)
> "Lennon read a book on Marx..." obvious reference to a phase of John > Lennon's life. Why not an obvious reference to a phase in Lenin's Life ?
ryan@fremen.DEC (Mike Ryan DTN 264-8280 MK01-2/H32) (06/12/85)
Worst song ever? Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is
that American Pie is the best pop song ever. By what criteria did you
judge it: having meaningful lyrics and a singable melody in the same
song (admittedly a rare occurrence)?
Anyway, I think McLean was pulling people's legs by claiming it was
nonsense - the references seem pretty obvious.
A couple of things no one has mentioned yet: the reference to
"Jack Flash" (as in "Jumpin'...") in the fourth (Stones) verse.
Also, I always thought the beginning of the last verse referred
to Janis Joplin:
I met a girl who sang the blues
and I asked her for some happy news,
but she just smiled and turned away.
Oh, and can someone tell me what the "sacred store" refers to? I
have the impression that it's a specific place (like a club).
Mike Ryan
ARPA: ryan%fremen.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA
UUCP: {decvax,allegra,ihnp4,ucbvax,...}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-fremen!ryan
ENet: {FREMEN,BCSENG,CLOUD9}::RYANevan@petfe.UUCP (Evan Marcus) (06/14/85)
>> "Lennon read a book on Marx..." obvious reference to a phase of John >> Lennon's life. >Why not an obvious reference to a phase in Lenin's Life ? In the written lyrics of the song, the line goes..."Lennin read a book on Marks...". It is left intentionally ambiguous. Either Lennon/Lenin, and any of the Marx brothers (Groucho, Chico, Karl, Harpo, Zeppo, or Gummo). --Evan Marcus -- {ucbvax|decvax}!vax135!petsd!petfe!evan ...!pedsgd!pedsga!evan "So, if she weighs the same as a duck, she is made of wood..." "And therefore..." "A witch!"