misha@daisy.UUCP (Mike Umansky) (01/10/86)
Hi. This is a question for anyone who knows about TV and VCR standards. First, a story: A friend of mine in Germany has sent me couple of video cassettes with movies that he recorded over there with (I think) PAL standard. When played on our NTSC VCRs, there is nothing but snow on the tube and sound is completely garbled. Then I sent him couple of tapes I bought locally. He recorded couple of movies on his machine, but when he played the cassettes back he got nothing but snow on the screen and garbled sound. Then he sent the cassettes back to me. When I play them on my vcr then sound comes out ok except it is a little faster (I guess maybe tape transport speed difference - Is it AC freq dependent?) and I could see the picture except that it was vertically unstable. So, I got myself an old tv and changed the vertical hold capacitor. Now I have it stable but like I said it is a little faster than normal. Now the question is, are the VCR tapes made for USA different from the ones made for Europe??? Would it be too hard to create a translator that would go between an European and an American VCR, probably at the composite video/audio level??? Thanks in advance for any information! -- -- Michael Umansky (misha) Daisy Systems Corp. 700B Middlefield Road Mountain View, CA 94039-7006 (415) 960-7166 E-MAIL: ucbvax\!hplabs\!nsc\!daisy\!misha
brown@nicmad.UUCP (01/12/86)
In article <137@daisy.UUCP> misha@daisy.UUCP (Mike Umansky) writes:
[Author talked about sending tapes to Germany and vice-versa]
You are a victim of non-standard television. You will NOT be able to send
tapes to your buddy or vice-versa. The PAL standrard implies that it is
different from our NTSC standard, which it is. The European VHS machines
even record at a slower speed. Our T-120 tape is the same as their E-180.
So, they get 50% more recording time per tape.
The tape is not different. I sent tapes to my mother-in-law for her to
record the last season of Dr. Who. I couldn't play them here, but I did
get them digitally converted. That job cost me about $1700.00.
As for building a standards converter, forget it. Professionally built
units cost $20,000.00+.
Your only hope is if the world decides upon a standard HDTV format,
until that time comes, either of you will need to buy a vcr/tv combination
that will play the other person's tapes.
--
ihnp4------\
harvard-\ \
Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown
topaz-/ /
decvax------/aat@packard.UUCP (AA Triolo) (01/14/86)
I too have a problem with US/European standards. We had our wedding ceremony and reception video taped (VHS). My wife has relatives in Norway who have a beta system. They had asked for us to copy our tape from VHS to beta and send them the tape for those people who could not attent the wedding. This sounded good to me. I went to my local video store who had quoted me a price over the phone for $25 to copy a 2 hour tape from VHS to beta. When I got there with the tape we spoke about about what I was doing and he informed me that the copy would not work due to the different standard. He told me it could be copied digitally for about $175 for a two hour tape. He said the quality of the tape would suffer however. I should expect colors to wash-out and at times could lose verticle hold. My wife and I are debating whether to go ahead now with the copy now that it will cost us $150 more than we origionally planned especially when the quality of the copy will be poor. My question is: first, is all of Europe on the same standard? Secondly, has anyone had an experience with such a copy effort? Will the quality be worthwhile? I would hate to tell our relatives that the tape is on the way and have them let down with a trashy copy job. Does anyone know of a firm that would do such a copy for me (I live in central NJ, but would be willing to send it away) my local video store would have to send it out himself. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, both here and abroad. If there are sufficient interest and/or responses I would be glad to post a summary to the net. Tony Triolo AT&T Bell Laboratories Room 3N-D12 P.O. Box 4908 Warren, N.J. 07060-0908 ...!packard!aat
brown@nicmad.UUCP (01/14/86)
In article <395@packard.UUCP> aat@packard.UUCP (AA Triolo) writes: > He told me it could be copied digitally for about >$175 for a two hour tape. He said the quality of the tape >would suffer however. I should expect colors to wash-out >and at times could lose verticle hold. Boy, is that guy full of shit. A digitally converted copy will actually give a more stable copy, as the converter also has built into it a time- base corrector. The TBC generates new vertical and horizontal sync. Most of the newer digital converters use frame store, so if the original picture drops out, glitches, etc., the copy will continue w/o any glitches in the vertical or horizontal sync. I have converted Dr Who tapes, that were VHS PAL, and I got excellent copies. So, don't let that guy fool you. Most of Europe is PAL. France & Russia use SECAM. I hope this helps you out a little bit. -- ihnp4------\ harvard-\ \ Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown topaz-/ / decvax------/
sef@drutx.UUCP (FarleighSE) (01/14/86)
There are three video standards in the world.
(1) National Television Standards Committee (NTSC). This is the
standard used in North America, most of South and Central
America, Japan, and a few other countries.
(2) PAL. This is used in "Free" Europe and the Third World countries
that they developed.
(3) SECAM. This standard is used primarily in Communist counties
and the Third World countries that they developed. One exception
is that France uses SECAM.
Quality of copying NTSC to PAL comes down to how much you are willing
to pay for.
Scott Farleigh
AT&T Information Systems Denvermvramakrishn@watdaisy.UUCP (Rama) (01/15/86)
You dont need to spend thousands of dollars to convert from
tapes in one system to another system. A much cheaper alternative
is to buy multi system TV and VCR if you plan to see lot of
tapes in other system.
I recently purchased
1) SONY trinitron 20" colour TV, KV2062-AEB for $480
2) Panasonic VCR, NV 630PX for $480
Both were purchased from New York city.
They work on NTSC, Euro PAL and UK PAL.
Both have remote control and built-in converters(cable ready).
They can work on 110 and 220 volts.
(Actually I purchased them so that I can use them while I am
here and take home to India when I go back, India uses PAL, 220volts)
...Rama...
UUCP: {decvax,utzoo,ihnp4,allegra,clyde}!watmath!watdaisy!mvramakrishn
CSNET: mvramakrishn%watdaisy@waterloo.csnet
ARPA: mvramakrishn%watdaisy%waterloo@csnet-relay.arpagv@hou2e.UUCP (A.VANNUCCI) (01/15/86)
> The tape is not different. I sent tapes to my mother-in-law for her to > record the last season of Dr. Who. I couldn't play them here, but I did > get them digitally converted. That job cost me about $1700.00. For a lot less than that I bought a multi-system TV set and a multi-system VCR. I can watch television in the US where we use the NTSC system, record US shows and play US tapes. I flip a switch and I can play PAL tapes that my father sends me from Italy. The fact is that conversion from one of the european systems (PAL or SECAM) to the american system is difficult due to the different frame and horizontal scan rates. But making a TV set or VCR that works with both simply requires retuning of the various oscillators, and minor differences in the signal-processing schemes. As a result, multi-system TV sets and VCR's cost little more their NTSC-only counterparts. Using a multi-system TV and VCR you can do a home-made conversion by placing an NTSC camera in front of the TV screen where you play a PAL tape (the sound can be transferred directly through a cable, as there is no incompatibility there). The quality is surprisingly good, especially when you compare prices !!! Giovanni Vannucci AT&T Bell Laboratories HOH R-207 Holmdel, NJ 07733 hou2e!gv
jim@randvax.UUCP (Jim Gillogly) (01/15/86)
In article <395@packard.UUCP> aat@packard.UUCP (AA Triolo) writes: >I too have a problem with US/European standards. >We had our wedding ceremony and reception video taped (VHS). >My wife has relatives in Norway who have a beta system. >They had asked for us to copy our tape from VHS to beta > ... >My question is: first, is all of Europe on the same standard? I don't know about Beta format, but we recorded some tapes on our VHS machine (both from TV and with our camera), and they work fine on our friends' machines in the Netherlands. So there's some compatibility between US and Netherlands in VHS, anyway. -- Jim Gillogly {decvax, vortex}!randvax!jim jim@rand-unix.arpa
agn@unh.cs.cmu.edu (Andreas Nowatzyk) (01/15/86)
No: Europe does not use a single standard. There are 3 major systems
in use:
NTSC: The US standard
SECAM: developed by France
PAL: developed by West Germany.
The are several derived 'standards' that differ in the audio carrier
frequency, color carrier frequency, number of lines and/or number of
frames per second. So there are a total of about a dozent different
systems, all of them incompatible to various degrees. As mentioned
earlier, conversion is expensive, because you need a digital frame
buffer to do it.
You don't have to convert if your VCR can handle multiple systems
(and your monitor...). The following VHS recorders can all handle
most of the standerds mentioned above and are only slightly more
expansive than a normal VCR:
National NV-330 Panasonic NV-630PX
Sharp VC-477 Akai ???
Hitachi VT-39EM
Sony has a nice high resolution monitor (computer grade) that
can handle all these systems.
-- Andreascitrin@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Wayne Citrin) (01/15/86)
Are there such things as multiple-standard TV's (that is, TV's where you can change the standard by flipping a switch)? If so, are they expensive? I imagine that such TV's would be useful for people who travel and, for whatever reason, have to take their TV's. Wayne Citrin (ucbvax!citrin)
grr@cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (01/16/86)
citrin@ucbvax.UUCP (Wayne Citrin) asks: > Are there such things as multiple-standard TV's (that is, TV's where you can > change the standard by flipping a switch)? If so, are they expensive? > I imagine that such TV's would be useful for people who travel and, for > whatever reason, have to take their TV's. Yes, on all counts. Two examples lying about here are: Sony PVM1271Q - 3 standards plus composite and analog rgb Mitsubushi CT1051QFM - 3 (8?) standards plus composite Both are 13" units with remote control, etc, probably pretty expensive. The best place to get one would probably be a NYC/LA type electronics house, or have a local dealer special order on for you. Flame me to death, but note that there are 3 systems (NSTC, PAL, SECAM), which define the basic method of color transmision, but actually about 13 different standards which have been implemented to suit local tastes, power and politics. The Mitsubishi unit claims to handle 8 systems, and has a tri-color map showing where it can be used. About half the world, including the USSR, China, and half of Africa and South America is in white - no TV or no compatibility... -- George Robbins - now working with, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|caip}!cbm!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbm!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
jp@lanl.ARPA (01/16/86)
> Are there such things as multiple-standard TV's (that is, TV's where you can >change the standard by flipping a switch)? If so, are they expensive? >I imagine that such TV's would be useful for people who travel and, for >whatever reason, have to take their TV's. In Switzerland (Geneva) I have used a TV set that could receive either PAL or SECAM. It was a Japanese brand, Hitachi I believe, the system selection was programmed by switches for each channel. Once set up all that had to be done was to select the channel and the appropriate (pre-programmed) system was also selected. There is another standard in England that has coarser resolution than the US standard (fewer lines per frame). I have heard of sets that could select that system, but I don't think it is/was a color system.
dsi@unccvax.UUCP (01/17/86)
> In article <395@packard.UUCP> aat@packard.UUCP (AA Triolo) writes: > > He told me it could be copied digitally for about > >$175 for a two hour tape. He said the quality of the tape > >would suffer however. I should expect colors to wash-out > >and at times could lose verticle hold. > > Boy, is that guy full of shit. A digitally converted copy will actually > > Mr. Video > > Whoooooooaaaaaa, there, Mr. Consumer Video... You just might recall that the EBU broadcast primaries are different from the NTSC broadcast primaries. The two colour gamuts (particularly with respect to gamma precompensation) are not directly compatible, although it is possible to get a pleasing aesthetic result. Colour correction is an extremely expensive proposition which * no one * does for $175/2hr tape. As for "jitters", there are good and bad line + frame interpolation schemes. The first frame store PAL-B to NTSC-M converters suffer from severe motion artifacts, such as the "jerky" tennis ball we've all seen during Wimbledon matches of days gone by. Early "Muppet Show" tapes are also subject to severe temporal jitter. The converter at my spouse's former employer was horrendous in this respect. Yes, I agree that any digital frame store converter (which is not even slightly the same thing as a TBC) should reinsert the sync and burst in precise SC-H relationship for NTSC. However, the ability of the digital frame store converter to follow the original input signal is compromised by a consumer VTR recording. These are typically subject to gyroscopic errors, long time constants in the servo loop controlling headwheel speed and phase (done presumably to minimise "breakup" on cheap TV sets) and very high amounts of subcarrier frequency modulation from line to line due to stiction around the headwheel, etc....The input frame store has to recover a sampling clock from all this crud, and it also has to determine * which field is which * from trashy input synchronising information. Thus, a marginal PAL-B home videotape may actually *appear to roll* because the input converter has lost genlock. The image would still * be fully framed * at the output. I don't think the guy was full of BS at all. When you start with a trashy, timebase/frequency modulated signal that comes from consumer junk, the possibility of successful conversions are fairly low. I might add that professional equipment assumes (in many cases) a priori that there isn't a lot of IFPM on the timebase or colour subcarrier signals, so that the correction loop bandwidth is small where the write clock and timing are recovered. Thus, most professional video equipment has a very hard time genlocking to trash like VHS and Beta. One can only hope that a uniform digital videotape standard will finally filter down to consumers so that they can see what they've been missing. I've given up on the public demanding 4.2 mHz luminance bandwidth for now (but, yessirreee, they'll buy HDTV.) Mr. (Professional) Video David Anthony Director of Engineering DataSpan, Inc.
dsi@unccvax.UUCP (01/17/86)
> There are three video standards in the world.
WRONG. There are 10 colour television systems in the world today:
System Luma BW Chroma F-Sc Countrie(s)
"A" ? no England 405 lines, obsolete
NTSC-M 4.2 3.579545 USA, Japan, Canada 525/60
NTSC-N 4.2 (!) Could be implemented
in CCIR Region II 625/50
PAL-I 5.5 4.433618 UK
PAL-B,G,H 5.5 4.433618 EBU Continental 625/50
* note that only the sound SC is different from UK and EBU
PAL-M 4.2 3.575611 Brasil 525/60
SECAM-E 10.0 (!) France 819/50
* Rapidly becoming extinct as well. Used for SECAM tests
SECAM-L(III) D'R: 4.40625 mc France, USSR 625/50
D'B: 4.25000 mc
SECAM-K(IV) (!) (!) USSR (not in use) 625/50
Note that PAL-M uses the nominal values of colour subcarrier and
H scan/V scan (15750 Hz H, 60.00 Hz V) rather than the RCA "adjusted"
values in American NTSC. Presumably, this was done to encourage a local
TV industry in Brasil??
dyabrown@nicmad.UUCP (01/17/86)
In article <36721@lanl.ARPA> jp@a.UUCP (James Potter) writes: >There is another standard in England that has coarser resolution than the US >standard (fewer lines per frame). I have heard of sets that could select that >system, but I don't think it is/was a color system. The old 405 line B&W service has been taken out of service. It was kept alive until a majority of Great Britain was covered by the 625 line service. I believe last year was the last year of 405 line. -- ihnp4------\ harvard-\ \ Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown topaz-/ / decvax------/
bjr@alliant.UUCP (Josh Rosen) (01/17/86)
In article <11410@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> citrin@ucbvax.UUCP (Wayne Citrin) writes: >Are there such things as multiple-standard TV's (that is, TV's where you can >change the standard by flipping a switch)? If so, are they expensive? >I imagine that such TV's would be useful for people who travel and, for >whatever reason, have to take their TV's. > >Wayne Citrin >(ucbvax!citrin) I have seen a multi standard monitor. The person who owned it was from England and bought it there. I don't know if they are available in the U.S.
ron@brl-smoke.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (01/19/86)
> Are there such things as multiple-standard TV's (that is, TV's where you can > change the standard by flipping a switch)? If so, are they expensive? > I imagine that such TV's would be useful for people who travel and, for > whatever reason, have to take their TV's. > Yes. They aren't much more expensive, but you rarely see them on sale.
crickman@umn-cs.UUCP (Robin Crickman) (01/20/86)
> In article <137@daisy.UUCP> misha@daisy.UUCP (Mike Umansky) writes: > > [Author talked about sending tapes to Germany and vice-versa] > > You are a victim of non-standard television. You will NOT be able to send Try black and white. John Hasler (guest of ...ihnp4!umn-cs!crickman)
brown@nicmad.UUCP (01/20/86)
In article <423@unccvax.unccvax.UUCP> dsi@unccvax.UUCP writes: >> In article <395@packard.UUCP> aat@packard.UUCP (AA Triolo) writes: >> > He told me it could be copied digitally for about >> >$175 for a two hour tape. He said the quality of the tape >> >would suffer however. I should expect colors to wash-out >> >and at times could lose verticle hold. >> >> Boy, is that guy full of shit. A digitally converted copy will actually >> >> Mr. Video >> >> > Whoooooooaaaaaa, there, Mr. Consumer Video... You just >might recall that the EBU broadcast primaries are different from the NTSC >broadcast primaries. The two colour gamuts (particularly with respect to >gamma precompensation) are not directly compatible, although it is possible >to get a pleasing aesthetic result. Colour correction is an extremely >expensive proposition which * no one * does for $175/2hr tape. Yes, the two color schemes are different. The results that I have gotton from the tapes I had converted are indeed just fine. If I had my druthers, I would rather watch PAL stuff on PAL equipment. But, that makes it hard to make copies. I have had VHS PAL converted to 3/4" Umatic NTSC for less than $175/2hr. It was also done on a Digital frame-store converter. The price: $80/hr. This was a little private operation that was not big company run and he is not out to make millions. > As for "jitters", there are good and bad line + frame interpolation schemes. >The first frame store PAL-B to NTSC-M converters suffer from severe motion >artifacts, such as the "jerky" tennis ball we've all seen during Wimbledon >matches of days gone by. Early "Muppet Show" tapes are also subject to >severe temporal jitter. The converter at my spouse's former employer was >horrendous in this respect. > > Yes, I agree that any digital frame store converter (which is not even >slightly the same thing as a TBC) should reinsert the sync and burst in >precise SC-H relationship for NTSC. However, the ability of the digital >frame store converter to follow the original input signal is compromised >by a consumer VTR recording. These are typically subject to gyroscopic >errors, long time constants in the servo loop controlling headwheel speed >and phase (done presumably to minimise "breakup" on cheap TV sets) and >very high amounts of subcarrier frequency modulation from line to line >due to stiction around the headwheel, etc....The input frame store has >to recover a sampling clock from all this crud, and it also has to determine >* which field is which * from trashy input synchronising information. >Thus, a marginal PAL-B home videotape may actually *appear to roll* >because the input converter has lost genlock. The image would still >* be fully framed * at the output. > > I don't think the guy was full of BS at all. When you start with a >trashy, timebase/frequency modulated signal that comes from consumer junk, >the possibility of successful conversions are fairly low. I might add >that professional equipment assumes (in many cases) a priori that there >isn't a lot of IFPM on the timebase or colour subcarrier signals, so that >the correction loop bandwidth is small where the write clock and timing are >recovered. Thus, most professional video equipment has a very hard time >genlocking to trash like VHS and Beta. The Sony 3/4" decks that I have at home don't have any trouble locking onto the output of any of the VHS tapes I have recorded. I prefer to record them on 3/4" first. But sometimes something goes wrong (me) and I have to use the VHS backup tape. > One can only hope that a uniform digital videotape standard will finally >filter down to consumers so that they can see what they've been missing. >I've given up on the public demanding 4.2 mHz luminance bandwidth for >now (but, yessirreee, they'll buy HDTV.) Sure, I'll buy HDTV. It is the only standard (or hope to be standard) that is wide screen and looks like it will have digital recorders from the beginning. >Mr. (Professional) Video >David Anthony >Director of Engineering >DataSpan, Inc. If you would like I could find out the exact model number of the converter that he is using. But, the proof is on the pudding. I have 13 45 minute tapes that were converted from VHS PAL to 3/4", like I said, that are some of the best copies that I have seen, from VHS PAL. There aren't any vertical problems. I guess I shouldn't say that. A couple of times the picture would jerk. Why, cause I saw that the original master tape had a problem in it. The digital converter just gave a minor hick-up and went on converting. No sync loss, etc. But, a couple of times out of 13 45 minute tapes is excellent. None of this vertical roll that the other person said would happen. The only problems that I had with the tapes was with the 3/4" tape. It tended to lose tracking around the vertical sync, causing the recorder, when editing, to lose sync on the copy. I have a NTSC sync generator chip that I put together years ago, but when connected to the Sony recorder, wouldn't work. Well, after enough of this problem (after all of the editing was finished) I decided to open the Sony deck and find out why the chip wouldn't work. As it turned out, the input circuit loaded down the TTL signal that I was supplying it, so that it couldn't trip the internal circuitry. With that fixed, I don't have to worry about bad tape messing up the recorder. I digress, but the main point is that you shouldn't put down digital converters until you have seen them all. In your job, you probably have seen most of them. Also, if you were to see these tapes, you would probably find something wrong with them. But, for the original poster, a tape converted by my source would probably work out just fine, which was what he was after. I think that the person who told the poster that he would have lots of problems was indeed full of BS. In your job, you are looking for perfection. I too would love perfect copies. I would love to spend $250,000 for a full 1"C editing suite, but don't have the money, so I stick with 3/4" for editing. I would love to have my mother-in-law have 3/4" equipment to record stuff for me (in England), but that is out the question too. I work with what I have and that is all the original poster wanted to do. I feel that he was scared off for no real reason. True, the results will not look as good as if it was recorded on VHS PAL, but it won't be as bad as the guy told the poster. I think that I have said enough. Mike Brown Consumer Video User that would love industrial video PS: I belive that discussions like this, will in the long run, help out other users on the net. I hope that you think so too. -- ihnp4------\ harvard-\ \ Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown topaz-/ / decvax------/
mrgofor@mmm.UUCP (Michael Ross) (01/20/86)
In article <395@packard.UUCP> aat@packard.UUCP (AA Triolo) writes: >I too have a problem with US/European standards. >We had our wedding ceremony and reception video taped (VHS). > .... He told me it could be copied digitally for about >$175 for a two hour tape. He said the quality of the tape >would suffer however. I should expect colors to wash-out >and at times could lose verticle hold. > >My question is: first, is all of Europe on the same standard? >Secondly, has anyone had an experience with such a copy effort? >Will the quality be worthwhile? I would hate to tell our relatives >that the tape is on the way and have them let down with a trashy >copy job. Does anyone know of a firm that would do such a copy >for me (I live in central NJ, but would be willing to send it away) >my local video store would have to send it out himself. > In 1983 I was married in Scotland, and had my wedding videotaped. The UK uses PAL, so when I got back here I had to find a way to get it translated. I finally had it done somewhere in New Jersey - I can't remember where, but I got the name of the place from an ad in some Video magazine I found at the local B. Dalton's. If I recall correctly, the price was something like $100-$120 for the 60-minute tape (they supplied the new tape). I had it done VHS to VHS, but I don't suppose there should be any problem going to Beta. The quality was excellent and it was done quickly (about 1 week through the mail). There was a little degradation, but that's to be expected when dubbing any tape. --MKR
msc@saber.UUCP (Mark Callow) (01/22/86)
> There is another standard in England that has coarser resolution than the US > standard (fewer lines per frame). I have heard of sets that could select that > system, but I don't think it is/was a color system. That's the old 405 line B&W system. The first TV system in the world. Broadcasts started in 1936 from Ally Pally (Alexandria Palace) in North London. It has been phased out. When colour was widely introduced in 1968 plans were to leave the old transmitters running for (I think) 25 years to let all the old televisions die out. I think they actually pulled the plug last year because they decided that all the old sets had finally died. -- From the TARDIS of Mark Callow msc@saber.uucp, sun!saber!msc@decwrl.dec.com ...{ihnp4,sun}!saber!msc "Boards are long and hard and made of wood"
crs@lanl.ARPA (01/22/86)
> > In article <137@daisy.UUCP> misha@daisy.UUCP (Mike Umansky) writes: > > > > [Author talked about sending tapes to Germany and vice-versa] > > > > You are a victim of non-standard television. You will NOT be able to send > > Try black and white. > The scanning stardards differ too. This would affect monochrome as well as color. -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer, the government or your favorite deity. Charlie Sorsby ...!{cmcl2,ihnp4,...}!lanl!crs crs@lanl.arpa
brown@nicmad.UUCP (01/22/86)
In article <860@umn-cs.UUCP> crickman@umn-cs.UUCP (Robin Crickman) writes: >> In article <137@daisy.UUCP> misha@daisy.UUCP (Mike Umansky) writes: >> >> [Author talked about sending tapes to Germany and vice-versa] >> >> You are a victim of non-standard television. You will NOT be able to send > >Try black and white. Sorry, that won't work either. On VHS machines, the actual rrecording speed is even different. Europes highest speed is about halfway between our SP and LP speeds. B&W would work if the speeds were the same. I don't know what the Beta machines do in Europe, so I can't talk about them. -- ihnp4------\ harvard-\ \ Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown topaz-/ / decvax------/
rich@aoa.UUCP (Rich Snow) (01/23/86)
In article <2875@randvax.UUCP> jim@randvax.UUCP (Jim Gillogly) writes: >In article <395@packard.UUCP> aat@packard.UUCP (AA Triolo) writes: >>I too have a problem with US/European standards. >>My question is: first, is all of Europe on the same standard? No there are several standards, and several incompatable national versions of those, the rumor is that the Swiss have multistandard TV's so they can watch programs in German and French on the same set. I'd just say TV standards are all indo-european in root... > >I don't know about Beta format, but we recorded some tapes on our VHS >machine (both from TV and with our camera), and they work fine on our >friends' machines in the Netherlands. So there's some compatibility >between US and Netherlands in VHS, anyway. Only because your friends happen to have NTSC (never twice the same color) decks to play them on, or they have a multi-standard deck. If you ask them to make tapes from local TV and send them back, you'll run into trouble. Conversion is possible but costs upwards of $100... TANSTAAFL! Rich Snow AOA-----------------* ...!{decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!aoa!rich ...!{wjh12,mit-vax}!biomed!aoa!rich
mathur@alberta.UUCP (Ambrish Mathur) (01/24/86)
In article <11410@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> citrin@ucbvax.UUCP (Wayne Citrin) writes: >Are there such things as multiple-standard TV's (that is, TV's where you can >change the standard by flipping a switch)? If so, are they expensive? >I imagine that such TV's would be useful for people who travel and, for >whatever reason, have to take their TV's. > >Wayne Citrin >(ucbvax!citrin) Yes, there are tv's and vcr's available that support all three systems(plus a voltage range of 110 - 240V). Sony has models for both. I have also seen a Panasonic multi-system vcr. Each should cost about $800-$1000 approx. I have come across people from Asia/Europe staying temporarily for a couple of years in North America buying these systems so that they can carry tapes from here when they go back or vice versa. --Ambrish Mathur ...ihnp4!alberta!mathur
boechat@mcnc.UUCP (01/27/86)
In article <399@aoa.UUCP> rich@aoa.UUCP (Rich Snow) writes: >In article <2875@randvax.UUCP> jim@randvax.UUCP (Jim Gillogly) writes: >>In article <395@packard.UUCP> aat@packard.UUCP (AA Triolo) writes: >>>I too have a problem with US/European standards. >>>My question is: first, is all of Europe on the same standard? > >No there are several standards, and several incompatable national versions >of those, the rumor is that the Swiss have multistandard TV's so they can >watch programs in German and French on the same set. It's not a rumor, it's true that you can buy in Switzerland TV sets that would work for PAL(german standard) and SECAM (french standard). I think it's due to our special situation in the middle of Europe. J.-M. Boechat One from the fifth Switzerland! ....decvax!mcnc!boechat
brp@starfire.UUCP (Ben Pennington) (02/05/86)
> In article <395@packard.UUCP> aat@packard.UUCP (AA Triolo) writes: > >I too have a problem with US/European standards. > >We had our wedding ceremony and reception video taped (VHS). > > .... He told me it could be copied digitally for about > >$175 for a two hour tape. He said the quality of the tape > >would suffer however. I should expect colors to wash-out > >and at times could lose verticle hold. > > > >My question is: first, is all of Europe on the same standard? > >Secondly, has anyone had an experience with such a copy effort? > >Will the quality be worthwhile? I would hate to tell our relatives > >that the tape is on the way and have them let down with a trashy > >copy job. Does anyone know of a firm that would do such a copy > >for me (I live in central NJ, but would be willing to send it away) > >my local video store would have to send it out himself. > > > > In 1983 I was married in Scotland, and had my wedding videotaped. The UK > uses PAL, so when I got back here I had to find a way to get it translated. > I finally had it done somewhere in New Jersey - I can't remember where, but > I got the name of the place from an ad in some Video magazine I found at > the local B. Dalton's. I have a question which relates to this matter of Euro-American VCR operations. I will be in England for several months this year; I am taking a "camcorder" with me which doubles as a VCR w/out a tuner. Is it possible to dub from an English VCR to one designed for the USA market? I have heard that it may not be. If this is so, why? I would appreciate a reply. Thanks.
hrs@homxb.UUCP (H.SILBIGER) (02/05/86)
While there are three basic TV standards in the world, NTSC (Never Twice the Same Color), PAL and SECAM, there are many variations on these in different countries, and the total is about 12! Many VCR's available in Europe are multisystem. These are usually made in Japan, where they are also available. Ihave also seen them in some New York stores. I read that the new digital TV set have conversion programming built in, which doesn't necessarily mean it will be accessible here. It seems probable that the new high-definition TV standard will be uniform around the world. Herman Silbiger ihnp4!homxb!hrs