[net.audio] controversy?

logo (10/24/82)

anybody care to express opinions on Absolute Sound vs. International Audio
Review sorts of reviewing and evaluation?  how about tube vs. solid state?

i would be especially interested in hearing from audiophile equipment
designers.

  David (Reisner)
  uucp :  ...!ucbvax!sdcsvax!logo
  arpanet : sdcsvax!logo@nprdc

burris (10/27/82)

#R:sdcsvax:-240900:ihlpb:4000008:  0:939
ihlpb!burris    Oct 27  1:17:00 1982


Regarding solid state vs. tubes I can only state this. Many people
feel that tubes have a "warmer" sound than solid state equip. This
may be true depending on your definition of "warmer". If you are one
of the people who feel this way then nobody can convince you
otherwise, so go buy one. I can however, prove that solid state
equipment can out perform tube equipment in signal-to-noise and
distortion. This is providing that you believe the solid state test
equipment that I would be using. Power consumption is beyond
comparision by approximately an order of magnitude. The one thing
that can be said of solid state equipment that is properly designed
is that there is NO coloration of the original signal. If the proper
transistor, op amp., etc. is chosen and biased properly the only
difference between the input and the output should be gain and phase
in relation to the input signal.

	Dave Burris
	ihlpb!burris
	BTL - Naperville

jj (10/27/82)

Regarding tubes vs. transistors:
	The only source of difference between tubes and a properly designed
solid state amplifier that I have found is the lack of IM distortion at
high frequencies of the transistor amplifier, as compared to the
tube amplifier's output transformer.  For those of you who are sceptical,
try adding a little frequency-dependant non-linearity at the input of the
solid state amplifier( Damned if I know how to show a schematic over the net!)
I think that you will find  that your "warmth" will return.
	This must be taken with some care, however, as there are a bunch
of VERY bad sounding older solid state amplifiers out there.  (The bunch
that was designed before the realization of slew rate limiting, and
TIM, to be specific.)
	I must say that I'm not an audiophile.  I just like my music to sound
the same as it did when it was performed.

ken (10/28/82)

in regard to the tubes versus solid state equipment, virtually everybody talks
quickly about the tube equipment sounding warmer than solid state equipment.
then the rush to talk about specs start.  i quess as engineers you can't
help it.

no audiophile i know ever looks at the specs when reviewing a piece of equip-
ment or system.  the only thing that counts is how it sounds and there rarely
is a direct connection between specs and how it sounds (to the individual).

not afraid to sign my name,

burris (10/30/82)

#R:sdcsvax:-240900:ihlpb:4000009:  0:2235
ihlpb!burris    Oct 29  9:53:00 1982


Just what are the qualifications to be an audiophile? Where do you
get certified or are audiophiles self-proclaimed? 

I have work with all types of musicians in live performances and I
KNOW what they are supposed to sound like. Does this make me an
audiophile?

I KNOW I wish to maintain as much accuracy in the record/playback
process as possible such that the recording sounds like the
performance sounded. Does this make me an audiophile?

I KNOW that what I want to come from my speakers is an accurate
representation of what is on my albums. Does this make me an audiophile?

I KNOW that detailed specifications will indicate the degree of
accuracy in reproducing the audio source. Thus, I will look at the
specifications. Does this mean I am not an audiophile?

I get rather annoyed with the self-proclaimed "audiophiles" who
rattle off their opinions in HI-FI magazines. The ones that annoy me
the most are the ones who begin the article with a list of esoteric
equipment as proof that they are audiophiles. An example of this is
a recent article by an english professor at some university. His
rhetoric and writing style were great, too bad his technical
knowledge was practically nonexistant. He had rated a few digitally
mastered albums and then proceeded to discount the digital recording
process. The article must be read to be appreciated.

The word "audiophile" is one of the more misused terms in audio.
There seems to be no way to distinguish whether or not one is an
audiophile or not but once you have decided you are one then your
opinion becomes a "professional" opinion. At this point is doesn't
matter what proof is presented as argument to the opinion because
the response is "I don't care about any of those proofs, I think
this sounds better". If you think that a particular piece of
equipment sounds good, then TO YOU it does sound good and you should
be content with that but any person's opinion does not indicate the
accuracy of the reproduction. Specifications are an indication of
equipment performance which can be proven or disproven and are a
true representation of the accuracy of the equipment. Opinions just
exist and cannot be proven or disproven.

	Dave Burris
	ihlpb!burris
	BTL - Naperville

lmg (10/30/82)

	The term "audiophile" belongs in the same category as "hacker".
It means different things to different people, and it can be either a
compliment or pejoritive. I would call Dave Burris an audiophile based
on his feelings about his music. Others might want to reserve that word
for the people with five figure systems and bricks on top of their amps.

	It might be easier to decide who is definitely *not* an audio-
phile. I nominate anyone who:

	* Cleans a stylus with an index finger.

	* Stacks records on a changing rod.

	* Never cleans or demagnetizes his tape deck.

	* Praises the acoustics of the Byrne Arena. (for us Jerseyites)


Comments? (I need to ask?)

					Larry Geary
					Bell Labs, Holmdel
					...npois!houxi!hosbc!lmg

wm (11/01/82)

I know this is a dangerous position to take, but I once
read something that made a good case for the position that
stacking records *does not* hurt them.  The person writing
this article had done many tests, and after you think about it,
it makes sense.  The point is: what about stacking records
damages them?  There are two possible causes, damage from the
record groves on one record rubbing against the grooves of the
other record, and damage from the stylus angle changing with
the number of records that have dropped.  In the first case,
he showed that air pressure would keep the grooves from hitting
each other, even if they could, for infact, they cannot.  The
edge and center of the record are thicker than the part with
grooves, and keeps the grooves from touching.  And, even if
they could touch, and even if the air pressure didn't keep
them from touching, the possible damage from the two record
surfaces touching was nothing compared to the 9 tons per
square inch pressure that the typical stylus exerts on the
groove walls.  In the second case, the vertical stylus angle
does not change that much with the number of records dropped.
In fact, turntables that are set up to either play singly or
multiply (like most duals and other old favorites) are angled
so that the third record gets the proper vertical tracking
angle.  Even so, many records have some warp in them that is
more than the width of the record.  And how many audiophiles
even bother to set up the vertical tracking angle of their
cartridge? (I will probably get mail from all ten of them).
The point is, vertical tracking angle doesn't make that much
difference.
There are, of course two different ways that stacking records
does cause problems.  First, if someone doesn't bother to
clean the stacked records, because it is easier to clean a
record at a time while they are rotating, and difficult to
clean them while they are stacked.  This is not an argument
against stacking per se.  I am perfectly capable of cleaning
my records one by one, and my cartridge has a little brush
for getting any last minute lint that decides to come along.
The biggest problem is, if you stack records every self proclaimed
audiophile who comes along feels like it is their duty to yell
and scream at me for stacking records.  That is why I gave
up stacking records.
So, in the list of people who are not audiophiles, let's change
	people who stack records	to
	people who do not clean their records.
There is no excuse for that!

		Wm Leler - UNC Chapel Hill

dmmartindale (11/01/82)

Ordinary (elliptical or spherical) cartridge styli are probably rather
insensitive to vertical tracking angle, but the newer styli that try
to have a groove contact footprint which is closer to a vertical line
would be quite fussy about vertical tracking angle.