[net.audio] live vs. recorded: a recent experience

tbray@mprvaxa.UUCP (01/15/84)

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The experience of real concert sound being inferior to that available
at home is a common one for those of us who enjoy music that typically
involves electrically amplified instruments.

This is generally true regardless of the care taken by the artist in
question.  I earned my living house-managing for a few years and
there were definite sonic high and low points, but very few occasions
when the stage sound matched the quality of that recorded.

My opinion is that electric bands should realize this and not attempt
to get too fancy.  My most sonically satisfying live electric performances
have been those where the instruments were few and the "orchestration"
stripped down.

Specific examples - Pat Metheny just CAN'T get ECM quality on stage,
but JJ Cale CAN duplicate his lean, sinuous sound.

For non-amplified music, the concert hall introduces a whole new
host of influences.  As I found out when, last year, I followed the
Toronto Symphony orchestra from a dingy, but classic, shoebox-shaped
plaster-walled hall to a towering ultra-modern concrete bowl.  
Even within the same concert hall, being up in the cheap seats is
profoundly different (not necessarily less enjoyable) than
mid-orchestra...

enough spewing... this should be in net.music anyhow...

reid@decwrl.UUCP (Brian Reid) (01/18/84)

As a diversion, I run a small record label in the hours I don't spend
working at Stanford. I am a fanatic for sound quality, and since it is my
money I insist on proof-listening everything. Before I approve the next
step, I listen to master tapes, mixes, reference lacquer pressings, test
pressings, and so forth. I have spent a lot of time in the last 3 years
teaching myself how to be a better "critical listener", and I like to think
I'm pretty good at it by now.

I enjoy George Winston's piano music. [lest someone pigeonhole my tastes, I
also enjoy The Dregs, Otis Redding, and most opera]. Winston records on
Windham Hill, a local Palo Alto outfit that goes to the same extremes that I
do to produce ultra-quality recordings.

When I buy a new record, my usual practice is to play it once on a B&O
turntable, recording it on my Nakamichi 680 onto TDK-MAR-90 cassettes. I
then listen to the cassettes through my Hafler 220 poweramp and KEF 103.2
speakers or AKG-K240 headphones. [now you know my various votes for the most
cost-effective quality available to people who are trying to make mortgage
payments and raise small children.]

Last Fall I went on a real binge of listening to George Winston tapes. At
least once a day, more like twice, I played the @i[December] and @i[Autumn]
albums. Until I had them completely memorized. Every tone and overtone,
every timing nuance, every resonance, the sound of fingernails hitting keys.
Sometimes I almost didn't need to put the tape on in order to hear the sound
in my mind.

Just after Thanksgiving a friend got some tickets to a George Winston
concert in San Francisco at Symphony Hall. The stage was bare, save for a
wonderful old Steinway and a soft-spoken barefoot Winston. There were 2 AKG
(i.e. "good") microphones, one for his voice and one for the piano strings. 
Small monitor speakers, which looked like JBL's, were set up at opposite
ends of the stage.

I really enjoyed the concert, but the sound quality was MUCH better in my
living room than it was in my 10th-row near-center concert hall seat. I
know what good Steinways sound like, I know what bad Steinways sound like,
and this was neither. San Francisco's symphony hall (Louise M. Davies Hall)
has a reputation for generally good acoustics, and we were sitting in very
choice seats. 

So what was wrong? My theory is that there were two problems, namely a
frequency-related phasing error in the sound reinforcement system, and a
serious all-frequency phasing error between the speakers and the actual
piano. I kept wanting to run up and unplug the microphones and dash back to
my seat, to see if that made the sound quality better.

Has anybody else experienced anything similar? I have been to rock
concerts in which the "live" sound bore no relation to the recorded sound I
was used to hearing from that group, but I don't think that was so much an
acoustic phenomenon or a sound-reproduction problem as it was a difference
in the audio effects and the mixing; I believe this piano problem is
something else.

	Brian Reid
	Stanford
	..decwrl!glacier!reid