wjm@whuxl.UUCP (MITCHELL) (07/14/84)
<gulp,gulp> I agree, Operation ID is a great idea. Often you can borrow an engraver to mark a permanent ID on your valuables from your local police department. Whatever you do, DONT use your Social Security Number as the ID, it can't be traced, since the law prohibits the Social Security Administration from releasing SSN's to the police. A driver's license number is one option, but since some of us don't (or can't) drive, there are several other options. 1) If you are a ham, use your ham call - an option I use myself, since the call can easily be looked up in the Radio Amateur Callbook or traced through the FCC. 2) Unfortunately, the serial numbers on much electronic gear is not permanently marked on it (I've noticed this with much stereo equipment). Engrave the serial number on the chassis of the equipment. Then record the serial numbers and give the police a copy of the list if the things are ripped off. One advantage of this approach is that it does not destroy the resale value of the equipment. In fact it can be a selling feature --- Case history: A friend of mine bought some stereo gear from me (a receiver and a pair of speakers) a while ago. Like all my stereo equipment, the serial numbers were quite permanently and prominently engraved on the items. Unfortunately, he was ripped off and the thieves took his brand new tape deck and turntable. However, they left the receiver and speakers after seeing the ID eq engraved on them. Operation ID works - It can keep your stuff from being taken and can help you get it back if it is swiped. Bill Mitchell (whuxl!wjm)
seifert@ihuxl.UUCP (D.A. Seifert) (07/17/84)
> 1) If you are a ham, use your ham call - an option I use myself, since the > call can easily be looked up in the Radio Amateur Callbook or traced through > the FCC. This is fine, except that most of us won't recognize it as a ham call. > 2) Unfortunately, the serial numbers on much electronic gear is not permanently > marked on it (I've noticed this with much stereo equipment). This is fairly stupid. (although maybe it helps them sell more units as replacements :-) ) Putting the serial mumber on it permanently sounds like the best idea. Especially if you might sell it in the future. -- _____ /_____\ "Get out there and keep moving forward!" /_______\ - Leo Franchi |___| Snoopy ____|___|_____ ihnp4!ihuxl!seifert
abo@pucc-h (Doll) (07/17/84)
The National Crime Information Computer (or something similar) is a nation wide network tying all law inforcement agencies together. The standard approach for identifying an individual is by either their social security number or their name and date of birth. If you have ever legally driven a car or earned money in the US, you are in there along with your address, description and any crime, misdeminor or parking ticket. The base key for the data base is your social security number ( which is why they tell you to put your social security number on property for protection, if recovered by the police anywhere in the US, you will get notified). Lew Doll Purdue University Computing Center
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (07/19/84)
Somehow I doubt the statement that you will be notified if your SSN is on a piece of stolen equipmnet recovered by the police (due to tracing through the NCIC database). I had engraved my SSN on a batch of stereo gear. I sold one of the items to a friend of mine, who lived in Kansas City (I'm in St. Louis). Shortly thereafter, his stereo system was stolen, including the component I had sold him. His insurance company paid him off. Sometime thereafter, his wife, who worked for the probation system, was reviewing a case file on a subject (probatee?). This guy was a thief, and the file included listings of some of the items he had stolen which had been recovered. Amongst the listings was the very same component (an octave-band equalizer), engraved with my SSN, which had been stolen along with my friend's system. The point of all this is that I never heard anything about this through any official channel. I had a Missouri state driver's license at the time, which has the SSN on it, so the SSN should have been traced to me via the NCIC database if the original statement was true. It did not seem to have been done, otherwise I should have received some sort of inquiry about it. Since I had never reported any such item stolen, it would probably have been just some sort of routine inquiry, but no such inquiry ever got to me. (Since the insurance company had paid off the loss, I believe that they got the recovered equipment, by the way.) So I have doubts about the value of the SSN as a property identifier. Will
kiessig@idi.UUCP (Rick Kiessig) (07/19/84)
NO! Do not put your social security number on any
property that you wish to have recovered by the police! I
worked for the police department when I was in school, and
they had an entire room full of stuff that they couldn't
get back to their original owners because it was incorrectly
marked with social security numbers instead of drivers license
numbers. DLs are easily looked up over computer terminals
that are present in most police departments. SSNs are just
about IMPOSSIBLE to look up. The stuff that was recovered
with SSNs on it was eventually sold at auction.
--
Rick Kiessig
{decvax, ucbvax}!sun!idi!kiessig
{akgua, allegra, amd70, burl, cbosgd, dual, ihnp4}!idi!kiessig
Phone: 408-996-2399ags@pucc-i (Seaman) (07/20/84)
> NO! Do not put your social security number on any > property that you wish to have recovered by the police! I > worked for the police department when I was in school, and > they had an entire room full of stuff that they couldn't > get back to their original owners because it was incorrectly > marked with social security numbers instead of drivers license > numbers. My drivers license number IS my social security number (in Indiana). This makes it difficult to avoid giving out my social security number when I write checks. -- Dave Seaman My hovercraft is no longer full of ..!pur-ee!pucc-i:ags eels (thanks to my confused cat).
briand@tekig1.UUCP (07/20/84)
{}
I have asked my local (Lake Oswego, Oregon) police department about IDs,
and got the following information.
First, they do not recommend the use of SSAN because they, the nationwide
data base, cannot access them. The Social Security Administration will not
let them. HOWEVER, see below if you have already marked things this way.
Second, the recommended method is EXACTLY the following: State postal
abbreviation, followed by your driver's license number, followed by the letters
"DL" (for "Driver's License"). For example, I would mark my property:
OR1368772DL
because I hold Oregon Driver's License #1368772. Note, no spaces, no extra
characters, etc.
Third, for those who do not drive, most states will issue an identity card
through their motor vehicle bureaucracy. This is for precisely this purpose,
as well as for cashing checks, etc.
Finally, for those who have marked property in some other way, (SSAN, etc.)
YOU can inform the police data base of the numbers YOU have used, and this will
be entered in the nationwide data base. While the Social Security people are
not allowed to give out information on your number, YOU certainly can. If you
do this, give them the number and letter string you have used EXACTLY, spaces
and all (but if you're on this net you're probably computer oriented to some
extent and don't need to be told this). This option is NOT limited to SSANs
either.
The local police department also assured me that this information is
accurate nationwide (USA), and represents the preferred methods. They empha-
sized that the departments would not be able to interpolate, search for likely
alternates, etc. and that the search was for an EXACT match.
Hope it helps!
-Brian Diehm
Tektronix, Inc.2141smh@aluxe.UUCP (henning) (08/02/84)
**** **** From the keys of Steve Henning, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, PA aluxe!2141smh Home owners and renters insurance only protects an item when it is locked in your home or apartment and then only pays under the terms of the policy, replacement or whatever. Scheduled insurance which costs me $20 per thousand for my camera equipment covers it any place in the world against any hazard for their replacement with new as I have listed in my schedule. If I drop my camera in the ocean I can just leave it and get a new one.
wjm@whuxl.UUCP (MITCHELL) (08/06/84)
<gulp> Memo to Steve Henning (and the net): There are several problems to the use of a driver's license as ID. However, one of them is insurmountable: Some people (myself included) CANNOT drive, due to various physical limitations. Ergo, they do not have driver's licenses (this has led to some rather interesting discussions when said field for DL # is left blank on forms - frankly why do supermarkets need same (or SSN) on check cashing card application anyway - it also leads to my using plastic in place of checks in stores. Have you ever tried to pay for something with a check without a) a driver's license and b) a major credit card? However, the same store will take the VISA or Mastercard by itself, so the problem is solved - I leave the checkbook home and use the plastic). BTW: New Jersey only issues "non-driver license" cards to persons who are legally blind, not to those who can't drive for other reasons (and frankly I don't like the idea of government issued ID cards, this is still the USA). However, if you supply a copy of the engraved serial numbers to the local police, they can key same into the NCIC computer, and they will be transmitted to every other police department across the US (and to some international agencies as well - I think). This has the advantage that if you sell the stuff, the new owner has the same protection. End of Flame. Bill Mitchell (whuxl!wjm)
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (08/10/84)
Actually, in Denver, I had a card that guaranteed the checks. With a check guarantee card, your checks were accepted all over the place with no additional ID. However, in Maryland, I have a Welcome Check card which is wholly ignored (even by merchants with the Wecome Check logo decal on their door). -ron
acsgjjp@sunybcs.UUCP (Jim Poltrone) (08/10/84)
[chomp, chomp, chom--a large seed! PTUI!!]
About three years ago, I had my bicycle registered with the university police.
("So what's this doing in net.audio?", I hear you cry.) They had engraved
a number which was linked to the police branch, and another number which
tied the article to me. So if the bicycle was ever stolen, it would be
traced to SUNY at Buffalo Dept. of Public Safety, where they would look up the
second number, and see that it belonged to me. (Whether they would notify
me or not is another story.)
This system is, in my opinion, far more superior than Social Security numbers
or driver's license numbers. It circumvents the problem of someone not
having a Social Security card or a driver's license.
Jim Poltrone
...{decvax,rocksanne,watmath}!sunybcs!acsgjjpbytebug@pertec.UUCP (roger long) (08/14/84)
> Have you ever tried to pay for something with a check without a) a driver's > license and b) a major credit card? However, the same store will take the > VISA or Mastercard by itself, so the problem is solved - I leave the checkbook > home and use the plastic. Yes, this has always been a big gripe for me, as it is becoming more and more difficult for a growing segment of the population to write checks! It seems everyone is out to get them: the banks are making it more and more expensive to have a checking account to begin with, and then the stores won't even accept the check unless you have some means to positively identify yourself (i.e. drivers license and a major credit card). I personally have a credit card, but a good friend doesn't, and I've made a point when I'm out with her to make a scene in the checkout lines to show that most people really will take your check if you don't have plastic and you're persistant enough. ME: I don't have a credit card. CLERK: (grumble grumble) Well, what's your social security #? ME: That's none of your business, and it's against the law for you to ask! CLERK: Is this your correct address and phone #? ME: Yes. CLERK: What's your business phone #? ME: I don't work. I don't understand how the rest of the country can take this kind of treatment, though. One form of ID (with picture) should be sufficient. And since you're most likely paying the bank a pretty penny for your checking account services, why the heck don't they give you some sort of card to guarantee your check to $N, where N increases over time as you demonstrate your ability to not bounce checks! The banks I've asked about this, offer a check guarantee card if you have overdraft protection, which is available if you have one of their credit cards! I would think that the credit card companies would be upset with these requirments. After all, the clerks write down the credit card # and expiration date, which is all that's necessary for someone to order something by phone! Credit card fraud is on the increase, and what would you bet that at least some of it is via numbers stolen off of the backs of checks! Oh well, enough of this for now. What do y'all think? -- roger long pertec computer corp {ucbvax!unisoft | scgvaxd | trwrb | felix}!pertec!bytebug