gam@astrovax.UUCP (Gary Mamon) (03/09/85)
Is the following position (taken from Steinhaus, "Mathematical Snapshots")
a mate or a stalemate?
....kBRK
....PnPP
........
........
........
........
........
........
Black (Lower Case letters) has just moved his Knight to f7 checking the
White (Upper Case letters) King. However, White has no legal move at all:
none of his pieces can move. The book claims that this position is neither
a mate, nor a stale-mate, nor another form of draw. Usually mate occurs, when
a King is put in check, and in simple terms, the King moves, but cannot be avoid
being captured on the following move. But in this case, White has no legal
move at all. So the game would stop at this point, before Black could capture
the White King.
What do you think about this?
Rich Gott and Gary Mamon
--
Gary Mamon Princeton University Astrophysics (609)-452-3579
{allegra,akgua,burl,cbosgd,decvax,ihnp4,noao,princeton,vax135}!astrovax!gambill@ur-cvsvax.UUCP (Bill Vaughn) (03/11/85)
> Is the following position (taken from Steinhaus, "Mathematical Snapshots") > a mate or a stalemate? > > ....kBRK > ....PnPP > ........ > ........ > ........ > ........ > ........ > ........ > > Black (Lower Case letters) has just moved his Knight to f7 checking the > White (Upper Case letters) King. However, White has no legal move at all: > none of his pieces can move. The book claims that this position is neither > a mate, nor a stale-mate, nor another form of draw. Usually mate occurs, when > a King is put in check, and in simple terms, the King moves, but cannot be avoid > being captured on the following move. But in this case, White has no legal > move at all. So the game would stop at this point, before Black could capture > the White King. > > What do you think about this? > > Rich Gott and Gary Mamon > STALEMATE is defined to be the situation in which the side with the move IS NOT in check, but can make no legal move. Hence, this position CANNOT be stalemate because the king IS in check. (White's last move was a pawn.) CHECKMATE is the situation in which the side with the move IS in check and cannot, by any legal move, relieve the situation. The fact that he may have NO legal move at all is superfluous. WHITE HAS BEEN CHECKMATED. 0-1 Bill Vaughn Center for Visual Science UNIV. OF ROCHESTER Rochester, NY 14627 {allegra,seismo,decvax}!rochester!ur-cvsvax!bill
kovalsky@spp2.UUCP (Bruce Kovalsky) (03/11/85)
> Is the following position (taken from Steinhaus, "Mathematical Snapshots") > a mate or a stalemate? > > ....kBRK > ....PnPP > ........ > ........ > ........ > ........ > ........ > ........ > > Black (Lower Case letters) has just moved his Knight to f7 checking the > White (Upper Case letters) King. However, White has no legal move at all: > none of his pieces can move. The book claims that this position is neither > a mate, nor a stale-mate, nor another form of draw. Usually mate occurs, when > a King is put in check, and in simple terms, the King moves, but cannot be avoid > being captured on the following move. But in this case, White has no legal > move at all. So the game would stop at this point, before Black could capture > the White King. > > What do you think about this? The position is a mate. Just because White has no legal moves does not preclude him from being in checkmate; since he is in check and his king has no legal moves, then this is defined as checkmate. The above position is simply termed a "smother mate". Incidentally, this postion is interesting because it appears at first glance that it is an illegal position, since the White Rook could not have gotten there legally if White were moving in a downward (from above diagram) direction. But in order for this to be a legal position, White must be moving in an upward direction. Therefore, the White rook is on KN8, not KN1, and it could have gotten there legally. And White's last move had to be either P-R7, P-N7, P-K7, or a (Q,R,N,B or P) to B7 (where it was captured by the Black Knight, giving mate). This is a cute position that contains more than meets the eye! ----- Bruce Kovalsky ..!trwrb!trwspp!spp2!kovalsky "How do you make a small fortune in the stock market?" "Start with a large fortune."
brian@digi-g.UUCP (Brian Westley) (03/12/85)
In article <559@astrovax.UUCP> gam@astrovax.UUCP (Gary Mamon) writes: >Is the following position (taken from Steinhaus, "Mathematical Snapshots") >a mate or a stalemate? > > ....kBRK > ....PnPP > ........ > ........ > ........ > ........ > ........ > ........ > >Black (Lower Case letters) has just moved his Knight to f7 checking the >White (Upper Case letters) King. However, White has no legal move at all: >none of his pieces can move. The book claims that this position is neither >a mate, nor a stale-mate, nor another form of draw. > > What do you think about this? > > Rich Gott and Gary Mamon I'd say it's a smothered mate. According to Hoyle, if a player has no legal move AND is not in check, the game is drawn. The (unstated) implication is that having no legal move and being in check is checkmate. (This makes sense, since a player who is checkmated has "no legal move" technically speaking). Hoyle is still somewhat ambiguous. PS: anyone actually win a game by smothered mate? (check by knight & king can't move & knight can't be captured) Merlyn Leroy "Quote funny nose"
kanner@tymix.UUCP (Herb Kanner) (03/14/85)
It is obviously checkmate. I quote in its entirety the relevant sections of the Official Rules of Chess, Second Edition: Article 10 - Check 10.1 The king is in check when the square it occupies is attacked by an enemy piece; in this case the latter is said to be "checking the king." 10.2 Check must be parried by the move immediately following. If the check cannot be parried, it is said to be "mate." ----------------------------- Note that no relevance is given to whether or not other moves, which do not parry the check, are possible. Herb Kanner Tymnet, Inc. -- Herb Kanner Tymnet, Inc.
sohan@ut-ngp.UUCP (Ramakrishna Pillai, Sohan C) (03/16/85)
Hey, I am getting tired of reading the same news(?) over and over again. Maybe it is a good idea if people exercise some restraint and refrain from posting a followup immediately on reading an article with a simple question. This is not a race for who gets in the correct answer first.