[net.audio] Orphaned Response

emrath@uiuccsb.UUCP (08/22/83)

#R:tekcad:-53500:uiuccsb:5700002:000:81
uiuccsb!emrath    Aug 21 01:50:00 1983

I for one don't consider Hirsch's name to be mud.
This isn't net.audiophile  :-)

freund@nsc.UUCP (09/04/83)

#R:whuxk:0:nsc:-1:37777777600:545
nsc!freund    Jul 29 19:12:00 1983


	Recently I purchased three of the Telarc CDs.
	They were: Stravinsky Right of Spring
		   Stravinsky Firebird (1919 version)
		   Beethoven Opus 73.

	In general I was very pleased with the quality of these recordings
especially so in the case of the Opus 73.  The Telarc approach produced
superior imaging and very little evidence of mixing "editorializing".
So far these are perhaps the best I have heard except perhaps for the
Archiv Four Seasons and the DG Eine Kliene Nacht Musik.

Bob Freund
National Semiconductor
...menlo70!nsc!freund

michaelk@tekmdp.UUCP (09/04/83)

#R:tektroni:0:tekmdp:-1:37777777600:816
tekmdp!michaelk    Jul 29 16:58:00 1983

How much phase shift does a "typical" speaker system introduce ( I have
AR9 and B&O M100 speakers if you know those numbers) as compared to 
the phase shift in a CD player?  Kim Rochat mentioned 180 degrees at
20 KHZ for some CD player (I have a SONY).  It seems to me
that if I move my head back (from the speakers) about 0.3 inches, that
I have caused a 180 degree phase shift at 20Khz, but less than 10 degrees
shift at 1KHz, so does a 0.3 inch headmovement have the same effect as
the total error in the CD player process or am I missing something?
Anyway, how much phase shift is caused by the speakers, and how much
by headmovement, and how do these compare in maginitude to the shift
caused by a CD at very high (audio) frequencies?

Mike Kersenbrock
Tektronix Microcomuter Development Products
Aloha, Oregon

rdg@hpcnoa.UUCP (11/26/83)

#R:dartvax:-29700:hpcnoa:3500003:37777777600:495
hpcnoa!rdg    Nov  1 07:47:00 1983

Hear, hear!!

I'd like to second that opinion: The Abso!ute sound is
the best publication going on audio - since I started
reading it, my system has improved 1000%.

Just listening to the records they recommend produced
dramatic improvements.

I would also venture to call TAS "literature" in the sense
that you don't just glance through it like stereo review,
but most people read it cover to cover several times.

But beware: they do not like digital.

Robert Gardner
ihnp4!hpfcla!hpcnoa!rdg

rdg@hpcnoa.UUCP (11/26/83)

#R:allegra:-189500:hpcnoa:3500005:37777777600:1704
hpcnoa!rdg    Nov  2 08:02:00 1983


I went through the DG/Philips stage about 2 years back, and though
they are generally good recordings/performances, I found them to
be mostly unexciting and unsatisfying.

I'd like to tell you about some other high-quality record labels
which are essentially far better than DG/Ph., but are usually
somewhat harder to get. They are:

1) Harmonia Mundi of France - specializing in earlier music, Baroque,
	early classical, with some later music. Overall excellent
	recordings.
2) BIS - lots of romantic stuff, including a complete set of Grieg's
	works, available singly. Also generally excellent.
3) EMI of the UK - the British counterpart to American Angel - mostly
	the same catalog as Angel, but much better masterings and
	usually superior sound.
4) Audiosource imports - this includes the labels Accent, Astree, Ricercar,
	Audiofon, and some others. These are beautiful recordings,
	(especially the French Astree) with perfect surfaces, and 
	wonderful performances.
5) Qualiton imports - Includes Hungaroton, Supraphon, BIS, and others.
	I mentioned BIS seperately because they are exemplary; the
	other labels from Qualiton are not quite as good, but most
	are still superior to almost any of the commercial American
	disks, i.e., Columbia, London, recent RCA.
I get most of my records from Rocky Mt. records in Boulder - they
have an admirable selection of the above. Audiosource & Qualiton
have extensive catalogs from which you can order. I have found
that a random disk from one of the above labels will virtually always 
be worth whatever it cost.

I'll post some specific titles soon, and I'd be happy to recommend  
some titles to anyone who asks.

Robert Gardner
ihnp4!hpfcla!hpcnoa!rdg

wjm@whuxk.UUCP (11/28/83)

For those of you in the NYC area who are interested in these recordings,
Tower Records (Bway & E4th St in Greenwich Village) has some titles of these
recordings.  However, Tower's organization is (to me) absolutely aggravating.
They group everything by work in browser bins rather than by catalog number
and record company as do the other large NYC record stores (J&R, Record Hunter,
and Barnes & Noble).
Bill Mitchell (whuxk!wjm)

rmd@hpcnoa.UUCP (12/08/83)

#R:seismo:-43000:hpcnoa:30200001:37777777600:321
hpcnoa!rmd    Dec  5 19:52:00 1983

Have you ever considered the possibility  that the reason a 12Khz square
wave sounds  different to you than a 12Khz sine wave is  intermodulation
distortion?  You  could  listen  to  radio  frequencies  and  still  get
intermodulation products in the audio range under the right conditions.

   -- Rick Dow
   hpfcla!rmd

rmd@hpcnoa.UUCP (12/09/83)

#R:whuxk:-34200:hpcnoa:30200002:000:110
hpcnoa!rmd    Dec  6 21:26:00 1983

Does anyone have any opinions or test results comparing
tube and FET amplifiers?

   --Rick Dow
   hpfcla!rmd

rdg@hpcnoa.UUCP (12/10/83)

#R:whuxk:-34200:hpcnoa:30200003:000:487
hpcnoa!rdg    Dec  7 08:34:00 1983


/***** hpcnoa:net.audio / rmd /  9:26 pm  Dec  6, 1983*/
Does anyone have any opinions or test results comparing
tube and FET amplifiers?

   --Rick Dow
   hpfcla!rmd
/* ---------- */

Why must there always be 'tests' to show there is a difference?

I'm not taking sides in this particular argument, but it seems to
me that the existence of tests can show up differences, but the
non-existence of tests is NOT sufficient to prove that there are
no differences.

Rob Gardner
hpcnoa!rdg

tynor@uiucuxc.UUCP (01/07/84)

#R:itm:-104700:uiucuxc:18500014:000:54
uiucuxc!tynor    Jan  6 12:20:00 1984

Isn't this how Binaural recordings are miked?

steve

gregs@uo-vax1.UUCP (01/20/84)

#R:uo-vax1:2900007:uo-vax1:2900010:37777777600:125
uo-vax1!gregs    Jan  5 12:12:00 1984

It looks like no one has anything unfavorable to say about The Source, so
I'm going to sign up.

Greg Stewart
uo-vax1!gregs

muller@inmet.UUCP (01/27/84)

#R:decwrl:-490100:inmet:2600031:177600:5972
inmet!muller    Jan 26 16:45:00 1984

There are several possible reasons for your experience, all related to
sound reinforcement phemonena, not signal processing.  Without more info
tho', we can't say zactly what caused it.  You said there was a monitor at
each end of the stage...were they really monitors, i.e., speakers for the
performer's benefit, or were they actual reinforcement speakers for the
audience?  (I suspect the latter.)  This might make a difference...
   The first possibility is that you were hearing feedback effects.  Yes,
feedback can produce significant frequency coloration well below the
self-sustain level, e.g., +3 to -6 (?) dB at 3 dB below self-sustain.  
(We can call this amplitude response rather than frequency response, if
you prefer, tho' some relative phase shifts also occur.  These numbers
were recalled from my fuzzy memory of having actually plugged munbers
into the equations once...and we don't know how close the engineers were
actually running it anyway.)  These levels are well within your and
others' discernibility.  This is caused by the interference between the
coherent sounds FROM 4 sources (2 speakers, 1 piano, 1 voice), and INTO
2 mics.  As a recording engineer, you probably have never run into the
FROM problem, but may have had to fight the INTO problem.  I would guess
that the vox mic was mixed hotter than the piano mic, and thus was the
real offender.  This problem would be more likely if the speakers on the
stage were true monitors.  Other contributing factors include the off-
axis rejection characteristics of the mics and the angle at which they
were pointing.  Unfortunately there are many so-called engineers doing
reinforcement who don't understand wave phenomena at all.
   The second possibility involves your seating position.  The relative
distances to the speakers was probably such that you were hearing both
at similar amplitudes (assuming the speakers were pointed at you, not
at Mr. Winston) if you were near center.  Similar amplitudes is, of
course necessary for significant interference to occur.  If, then, one
speaker were perhaps just a few decimeters (give or take one order of
magnitude!) closer than the other, PRESTO! instant frequency-dependent
interference, again at a level you could most certainly discern.  The
summation of 2 equal coherent signals would give +6 dB, while the
cancellation of those frequencies out of phase could give -10, -100,
or -EVERYTHING! dB, if the amplitudes were similar enough.  Ironically,
those people seated to the sides probably had better sound than you did,
since they "heard" one speaker much more than the other.  There are 
several solutions to this: 1) use a hall with a center aisle, thus no
seats have this problem until you get further back from the stage (the
problem zone widens as you go back, but those folks won't feel like they
got ripped off by paying for a choice seat which did't sound so good!, 
2) run a stereo mix - this works for every sound source on the stage 
except those performers right at center stage, who will probably still
be panned equally into each channel, but it can accentuate the feeling
of being-off-to-the-side for those people with side seats (stereo mix
probably was not done at your concert, I would guess), or 3) use a
better speaker placement, i.e., only ONE (if you are mixing in mono),
placed above the performer, with a full spread angle (180 degrees or
whatever is necessary) - this also has the benefit of increasing the
throw of the coherent sound from the speaker into the reverberant field
of the room.  This last solution is rarely done partly becuz it isn't
practical with portable (for hire) sound systems, and partly because
engineers have a fixation with two speakers (ya' know, high-end stereo
stuff, and all), and sometimes becuz multi-speakers are needed for
audience coverage.  This last solution also has the benefit of allowing
some of the patrons to experience the proximity effect, making them
think they are hearing the performer directly rather than the PA system.
Unfortunately a lot of (even pro) sound reinforcement engineers don't
understand this either. 
   As you can see, the problems of SR'nfrcmnt are usually the result of
the actual sound fields, and typically dominate the smaller electronics
or signal processing concerns that SR'prdctn involves.  Worrying about
relative phase response between frequencies in an amplifier, or whatever
is misguided when you can have +/- 5 dB in amplitude response from the
sound field, lots of phase shifts in microphones, as much as 100%(!)
harmonic distortion in (admittedly the cheapest) PA speakers, poor
frequency/dispersion characteristics and nonconstant efficiencies 
(varying impedance) with volumn or frequency, etc., that comes from
optimizing a speaker for high efficiency/high power handling ability.
Couple this to the fact that anyone can buy PA stuff any then consider
that a rigorous quantitive analysis of any concert setting is not
practical (so that experience often counts for more than theory) and
you can see why there is variability in concert PA system performance.
I'm not trying to criticize either sound engineers or your own thoughts
on recording, rather just trying to put things into perspective.  Notice
that I haven't even touched on the question of PERCEPTION.
   Most of what I have said I can substantiate with experience.  I am
a semi-pro musician, semi-pro sound reinforcement engineer, and a
(professional) signal processor (underwater acoustics) and scientist
(seismology).  I HAVE probably spent more time thinking these problems
than most people in the SR'nfrcmnt business.
   Yeah, I know I misspelled voluum, and a few other words....
              Jim Muller
              8 Bates Rd East
              Watertown, MA 02172
Yes, interference between the direct and speaker sound is real possibility
though it is more likely that the requisit similarity of amplitudes 
for any frequency was obtained between the two speakers.

paul@hpfclk.UUCP (02/06/84)

Anyone know what the status is of the lawsuit brought by Bose against Consumer's
Union ?  Last I heard, Bose had won a lower court ruling.

			  ...ihnp4!hpfcla!paul   Paul Beiser

rmd@hpfcla.UUCP (02/09/84)

I have gotten a request to post more information  about the geography of
my area.  Here it is:

I leave on the plains 6 or 7 miles  east of the  foothills  of the Rocky
Mountains.  Most of the stations I listen to  broadcast  from  mountains
near  Denver,  so they are 60 miles  away and 2000 to 4000 feet  higher.
There are no hills or tall  buildings  directly in the signal  path, but
there is a continuous  wall of mountains a few miles to the west all the
way from here to Denver.  There are few trees  around  here, but quite a
few lakes.

There is one station in Laramie,  Wyoming which is separated  from me by
fairly  rugged  terrain.  In this case, the Carver  tuner  improves  the
distortion quite a bit.

Rick Dow
inhp4!hpfcla!rmd

fritz@hpfcms.UUCP (02/19/84)

My brother, who has a degree in music, listens to a LOT of classical music 
and jazz, at all levels from background to earthshaking.  He swears by his 
601's and would only trade them for 901's (but I'm not even sure he'd do
that!)

Like the man sez, it's all a matter of preference.

grw@inmet.UUCP (03/08/84)

#R:vice:-130600:inmet:2600043:000:702
inmet!grw    Mar  7 11:00:00 1984

Has anyone had any experience with the Technics 245X cassette deck?  It has
Dolby B/C and dbx.  The deck is available through mail order places for about
$200 (I have seen $179).  Though not built 'like a tank' might it be a good
interim tape deck for someone who doesn't want to spend $350?  I hear that
this deck disconnects the record level control when dbx is engaged (I assume
the channel balance control works!) because the claimed dynamic range of the
deck with dbx exceeds the dynamic range of most program sources.  Can anyone
verify this feature?  Does it make sense?


					-- Gary Wasserman
					...harpo!inmet!grw
					...hplabs!sri-unix!cca!ima!inmet!grw
					...yale-comix!ima!inmet!grw

jlp@inmet.UUCP (03/15/84)

#R:burdvax:-153400:inmet:2600052:177600:322
inmet!jlp    Mar 12 16:31:00 1984



FM time constants : let's see, somewhere deep in my memory banks.
Doesn't 75us sound right ( with 25us preemphasis for Dolby)? 120
is used for standard type 1 formualation tapes ( FeO2 ). 70 us
is used for types 2 - 4 ( CrO2, FeCr, metal ).



The Organ Keyboard of
Jerryl Payne
{esquire,harpo,decvax!cca!ima}!inmet!jlp

andrew@inmet.UUCP (03/15/84)

#R:hpfcla:-1310000600:inmet:2600050:177600:1621
inmet!andrew    Mar 12 09:18:00 1984

> 2.  Extra speaker in addition to the normal stereo pair.  Most people
> thought that the change that occurred when the other speaker was brought
> into the room was incredible.  They thought the sound was muddier and
> more veiled.  This is how Casey explained it: (paraphrase)
> 
> "Well, a speaker has a woofer and a tweeter, so what else must it have?
> Well, it has to have a crossover.  Now, tell me, what's in a crossover?
> Well, things like resistors, capacitors, and...AHA! Capacitors! And
> now what do capacitors do? They store charge.  The active speakers
> excite the extra one, and cause the woofer to vibrate in sympathy with
> the music.  Current is generated in the voice coil of the moving woofer,
> and this in turn charges up the capacitors in the crossover.  They
> charge for a little while, then they decide to discharge whenever they
> damn well please, and cause the tweeter to become active all of a
> sudden, generating some sound that is not only greatly distorted, but
> way out of phase."

This isn't quite as far-fetched as it sounds.  THE AUDIO AMATEUR ran an
article a few years back entitled "The Not-Quite Passive Radiator".  The
premise of this article (sorry, I no longer have it) was basically:  When
using a conventional woofer as a passive radiator, an R-L-C network could
be attached to it to 'tune' its response by reinforcing the voice coil
current at desired frequencies and opposing it at others.  Casey's premise 
is not all that different; he also takes into consideration the effect on
the tweeter.
 
Andrew W. Rogers, Intermetrics    ...{harpo|ima|esquire}!inmet!andrew

andrew@inmet.UUCP (03/15/84)

#R:cubsvax:-17700:inmet:2600049:177600:219
inmet!andrew    Mar 12 09:05:00 1984

Tubes are indeed advertised in Guitar Player, but the selection available is
limited to those most commonly used in guitar amps (6L6, 12AX7, etc.).  You
will have little success finding others through those companies.

andrew@inmet.UUCP (06/27/84)

#R:tektroni:-275800:inmet:2600091:177600:1376
inmet!andrew    Jun 25 16:20:00 1984

> Would someone recommend a cheap pair of speakers for a 15 watt "system"
> that would run about $100 (yes, for both) ? My present inclination is 
> toward "Speaker Lab" do-it-yourself speaker kits ...

I don't think you'll find much for $100/pair new and assembled, but I'll
suggest two (both of which I own):

1) Auratone 5-S.  This is a home version of the 5-C "Super Sound Cube"
commonly used in recording studios; its longer, shallower shape provides
smoother frequency response (better bass, smoother lower-midrange) than
its studio counterpart.  $90/pr. is sort of high for a full-range, though.

2) Realistic Minimus-7.  Really!  These mini-speakers are quite good for
the money; when one of the audio mags tested a group of minis, these were
rated second overall despite being the least expensive speaker tested.
These are the only Radio Shaft speakers worth the list price (most aren't
even worth the sale price), possibly because RS buys them from an outside
source instead of contracting their manufacture.  $100/pr. last I knew; 
discounted *very* rarely (i.e., don't hold your breath waiting).

I don't know enough about Speakerlab products to comment on them.  An
alternative would be to look around for used speakers, or to raise your
budget to the $150 range (eg., Polk 4A, Boston Acoustics A40).
 
Andrew W. Rogers		...{harpo|ihnp4|ima|esquire}!inmet!andrew

wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (06/28/84)

This might completely spoil any pretense I may have to audiophile standing...

Anyway, I second the recommendation for the Radio Shack Minimus-7's. 
I was looking for some physically-small speakers to use with an old
receiver as a bedroom system, and didn't feel it would be worthwhile
to spend much on them. I listened to several bottom-of-the-line 2-ways
at a couple stereo shops, but they were still $60 each or so, and
sounded poor, and seemed poorly-contructed. I had always ignored Radio
Shack, except to get my freebie batteries, but noticed that the
Minimus-7's were on sale at $40 each, so gave them a listen and was
quite pleasantly surprised. Bought a pair, and they work fine with
a 60w/channel old Kenwood TK-140X. One thing to watch out for; I first
tried sitting them on top of a TV. I then noticed terrible color
distortions in the TV picture. It turns out that the magnetic field
from the drivers in the tiny box radiates far enough to adversely
affect CRT displays nearby. I moved them over to a dresser next to
the tv, and the distortion went away. Also be careful about letting 
cassette tapes get near them! I wouldn't be surprised if they would
cause partial erasure by that field.

They don't match my Klipschorns, but they are certainly easier to
find a place for! :-)

(I thought they were fairly commonly on sale for $40 each, by the way.)

Will

andrew@inmet.UUCP (07/17/84)

#R:brl-tgr:-306800:inmet:2600093:000:442
inmet!andrew    Jul  9 09:01:00 1984

I posted the original Minimus-7 suggestion, and mentioned that they are
seldom on sale... a couple of days later, I got a RS flyer pushing them
for $30 each ("Lowest Price Ever!").  As a couple people pointed out via
private mail, it sounds like RS is trying to close them out.  Oh well,
they're great for $50, unbeatable for $30... sounds like I'll have to
pick up another pair.
 
Andrew W. Rogers		...{harpo|ihnp4|ima|esquire}!inmet!andrew

tynor@uiucuxc.UUCP (07/19/84)

#R:brl-tgr:-306800:uiucuxc:18500033:000:204
uiucuxc!tynor    Jul  5 23:20:00 1984

  I just bought a pair (minimus-7's) for $29.99 each.   They make great
car speakers.  
	
	Steve Tynor    
	      
	     ihnp4!uiucdcs!uiucuxc!tynor 
             University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana

carl@hpcnoe.UUCP (carl) (08/10/84)

BYTE is experimenting with a new system where they send you a
subscriber-number card.  You can then call them up with a
Touch-Tone(R) telephone, punch in a few numbers, and supposedly
get information in a matter of days.  This system has yet to
be completely installed, so the jury's still out on how well it
will work.

fritz@hpfclk.UUCP (fritz) (09/09/84)

There are some recordings (e.g. "Whole lotta love" by Led Zeppelin) which
have *very* noticeable pre-echo -- as loud as it is, I've always kinda
assumed that it was intentional, for "effect".  That could be the type
of thing you're hearing on your CD's.

Gary Fritz

dswankii@uok.UUCP (10/19/84)

You are in for fun times. If the Clarion has a floating ground output,
i.e. if you are warned not to connect any speaker lead to auto body ground,
then you need an adaptor to eliminate a short to ground through the input
section of the booster. For an impeadence/voltage mismatch your only option 
is again an adaptor between the two units. If you don't use the adaptor, the
short to ground will fry the output stages of the reciever. If you just have
a mismatch, the sound quality and the volume will suffer plus the potential 
is there to roast the input on the booster.

				David Swank II
				University of Oklahoma
				ctvax!uokvax!uok!dswankii

emjej@uokvax.UUCP (10/25/84)

/***** uokvax:net.audio / decwrl!lauck /  2:43 am  Sep 30, 1984 */
A fair comparison of LP and CD is now possible.  Yesterday I bought the
digitally mastered CD and the direct disk analog LP of Sheffield lab's
"West of Oz".  My wife and I listened to the CD first than began the
LP. We got as far as "Somewhere" before my wife stopped me and suggested
there was no further need for comparison.  We didn't need to go
"over the rainbow", the LP was so obviously superior. 
/* ---------- */

Saying something is "obviously superior" doesn't help. When I listen to
CDs, I tend to think them "obviously superior" to LPs; what does that
prove? Or more precisely, it proves nothing until I say *why* I think
them thus (no random grunge, pops, and clicks, with the assurance that
it will *stay* that way, as opposed to gradually destroying the medium
each time I play it; improved dynamic range; etc.).

Please tell us *in what way* you think the LP superior. If it is something
that can be reliably detected in a double blind test, then perhaps there
are grounds for discussion.

						James Jones

jmaag@okstate.UUCP (10/29/84)

There is a place called Compact Disc Centre
that you can get CD's for 11.99. There address
can be had out of the back of either High Fidelity
or Stereo Review.
-John Maag 
Oklahoma State University

george@sysvis.UUCP (11/10/84)

<>

The entire discussion of LP vs CD and Analog vs Digital is very
reminiscent of the discussions about a decade or two ago about
the relative merits of vacuum tube vs transistor audio equipment.

Most of the points discussed are really religious items, rather
than "ultimate truth".  The main point that both sides of the
issue make is that the listener (beholder) makes much more 
difference than the topics (phenomena).  If you say that you
enjoy LP over Digital then this is very true for you.  If you
say it the other way then it is also true in your case.  Both
of these statements are beliefs rather than facts.

I know one fellow right now who swears that he can hear a
difference between tube and transistor equipment....

	George Robertson.  {convex,ctvax}!trsvax!sysvis!george

perry@hp-dcde.UUCP (perry) (01/14/85)

Dazed and Confused
!hplabs!hp-pcd!dhk
/* ---------- */

Dear Dazed,

Try using a SPDT switch from labstock.  Although I've never tried doing
what you're doing, it should probably work.

Hook all of the speaker grounds to the amp ground (black), and use the
SPDT to switch the stereo hot leads.  Use the switches just as you would
the banana clips.

If this doesn't work, go down to your local speaker store and see how
they do it there.

Perry Scott, FSD (SwillNet 1-226-2891)

ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (01/16/85)

> 
> Dear Dazed,
> 
> Try using a SPDT switch from labstock.  Although I've never tried doing
> what you're doing, it should probably work.
> 
> Hook all of the speaker grounds to the amp ground (black), and use the
> SPDT to switch the stereo hot leads.  Use the switches just as you would
> the banana clips.
> 
> If this doesn't work, go down to your local speaker store and see how
> they do it there.
> 
> Perry Scott, FSD (SwillNet 1-226-2891)

Gak...what ground.  You don't connect the speakers on my amp to ground
at all.

-Ron

tli@uscvax.UUCP (Tony Li) (01/19/85)

> 
> Gak...what ground.  You don't connect the speakers on my amp to ground
> at all.
> 
> -Ron

Ummm...  I think he means those funny black knobs on back...  ;-)


-- 
Tony Li ;-)		Usc Computer Science
Uucp: {sdcrdcf,randvax}!uscvax!tli
Csnet: tli@usc-cse.csnet
Arpa: tli@usc-ecl

thom@hpfcrx.UUCP (thom) (02/12/85)

I read somewhere that Pink Floyd was suing the recording company because 
their original contract did not include CD's prodcution.  As a result, 
the manufacturer recalled all Pink Floyd CD's.  This is only a rumour
though, but it might explain the sky high price you observed.

Tom Morrissey
hplabs!hpfcla!thom

fritz@hpfclp.UUCP (fritz) (02/12/85)

I was just in Sweden and Germany.  The prices of CD's there seemed to be
running about $14-17.  This seems outrageous, considering the current
strength of the dollar, and the fact that all these discs are manufactured
in Europe in the first place!  By comparison, some local (Swedish) audiophile-
quality albums were going for about $7 ea.

Gary Fritz
Hewlett Packard Co

thom@hpfcrx.UUCP (thom) (02/21/85)

It searches with the head down (of course, how else could it detect so many
seconds of silence between songs).  As a result it is wearing off the oxides
and guess where they are all accumulating?  On the heads right.  So, not only
does it where the tapes out faster, it wheres the head out faster and the head
needs to be cleaned more often.  Actually one of my decks has it and I actually
like the feature, but I cringe everytime I use it.

Tom Morrissey
hplabs!hpfcla!thom

rmd@hpfcla.UUCP (rmd) (02/23/85)

Even  though  few  humans  can hear  sine  waves at 22Khz, it should  be
possible  to hear  the  intermodulation  of the  high  frequencies  in a
complex  signal.  For  example,  a 42Khz  signal  could mix with a 41Khz
signal in the glass  doors of your  fireplace  and  produce  a 1Khz beat
tone.

I personally doubt that the magnitude of such  intermodulation  products
are actually audible in the presence of louder sounds, but who knows?

Rick Dow
hpfcla!r_dow

grw@zurton.UUCP (03/08/85)

I would suggest the technics rsb18 which is available mail order for around
$125.  Its a single motor deck but should work well enough.  The next model
up in the technics line uses two motors for a few more bucks but employs the
same electronics.  

					Gary Wasserman
					Hydra Computer Systems, Inc.
					decvax!cca!ima!hydravax!grw

chan@hpfcma.UUCP (chan) (03/08/85)

> I've listened to some M&K three-way systems. They didn't seem to have much
> more bass, and weren't as clear as, the SL-600's. I thought about
> three-ways for a while, and decided that, unless I found one that was every
> bit as clear & sharp as the SL-600, I'd stick with two-ways.  I can always
> add a subwoofer later.

Are you talking about the M&K Satellite-Volkswoofer combo? If so, what do
you mean by "more bass"? I've got this setup, and while I admit they're not
the cleanest sounding speaker in the world, they do have some of the lowest
bass I've heard (especially compared to non subwoofer systems). They also
give a lot of latitude in setting them up (a level control and three possible 
frequency curves on the woofer, and six possible "sounds" for the speakers).

How come people never mention what kind of music they listen to the most
when they ask for speaker recommendations? I heartily recommend the M&K's
to rock lovers, but they don't do very well with classical (at least not as
well as other speakers at the same or higher price). 

			-- Chan Benson
			{hplabs | ihnp4}!hpfcla!chan
			Hewlett-Packard Company
			Fort Collins, Co

berger@datacube.UUCP (03/09/85)

For a modern speaker try:
	Eastern Acoustic Works, Framingham, Mass

They make a whole range of state of the art speakers for large spaces
as well as studio monitors.  Kenton Forsythe is the designer (of the
Forsythe Bass Box).  They were selected by the Japanese Govt as the speaker
of choice (over JBL, ALTEC, KEF, etc) for a series of youth centers
(100,000 seats) accross Japan.

	From a biased observer (My brother started EAW)

	Bob Berger Datacube Inc.
	
	ima!inmet!mirror!datacube!berger
	decvax!cca!mirror!datacube!berger
	decvax!genrad!wjh12!mirror!datacube!berger
	{mit-eddie,cyb0vax}!mirror!datacube!berger

	4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960
	617-535-6644

shep@datacube.UUCP (03/09/85)

Has any body had any experience with TVA amplifiers? They are massive
valve (tube) amps made in Britain. A have to fix one and need a
schematic. Oh, the TVA stands for "Thermionic Valve Amplifier".
A address or phone number would do. Thanks.

                ima!inmet!mirror!datacube!shep
Shep Siegel     decvax!cca!mirror!datacube!shep
Datacube Inc.   decvax!genrad!wjh12!mirror!datacube!shep
Peabody, Ma.    {mit-eddie,cyb0vax}!mirror!datacube!shep

fritz@hpfclp.UUCP (fritz) (03/19/85)

> I just recently bought a box of Maxell XL-II cassettes.  The package is
> different and the labelling is "XL-II" where it was formerly "UD XL-II".
> Does this represent a real change or just one of those gratuitous/mean-
> ingless marketing changes to avoid "foolish consistency"?
> -- 
> Dick Dunn	{hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd		(303)444-5710 x3086

I understood that the XL-IIS's are an upgrade to the UD/XL-II's.  Supposedly
they have a denser oxide formulation, which helps the S/N ratio.  According
to the hype on the wrapper, they also have better high-freq response?

I recently bought 20 at $2/ea (w/ the $.50/ea refund from Maxell), and have
been quite happy with them so far.  But then I've only recorded about 4 of 'em.

Gary Fritz
ihnp4!hpfcla!fritz

bill@hpfcms.UUCP (bill) (04/13/85)

That's funny - I have an Audio Technica cartridge and really like it.
Of course, mine is a $150 model (don't remember the number), so that
may be the difference.

Bill (just throwing in my 2 cents' worth) Gates

chan@hpfcma.UUCP (chan) (04/18/85)

> (a) Some of us like more than one type of music.

True, I like nearly any kind of music (except opera: no flames
please), but I listen mostly to R&R so I kept that in mind when
I bought my speakers.

> (b) Good speakers will play all types of music well.

True, but it makes sense to buy speakers that are optimal for
the type of music you listen to the most -- as long as other
types of music sound decent too. For instance, I can't think of
any speakers that play (say) Deep Purple better than mine, but
there are tons of speakers that play classical better.

BTW, I am not some crank that punches the loudness button and
wails on the bass knob.

			-- Chan Benson
			{hplabs | ihnp4}!hpfcla!chan

mpm@hpfcms.UUCP (mpm) (04/21/85)

     (Unsubstantiated rumor)  I heard that with current exchange rates,
the price of a CD in Germany is about $10 U.S.  That was as of about
two weeks ago.
		-- Mike "What balance of trade?" McCarthy

rjs@hpfclo.UUCP (rjs) (05/08/85)

I'm glad to see this issue brought up. I've wondered about it myself.
While we're on the subject, can someone name a few true "high end" 
transistor type amp/preamp manufacturers? I would like to listen to some 
and would appreciate some suggestions. Thanks in advance.

	Bob Schneider
	{ihnp4|hplabs}!hpfcla!hpfclo!rjs

man@bocar.UUCP (M Nevar) (05/17/85)

<  I'm glad to see this issue brought up. I've wondered about it myself.
<  While we're on the subject, can someone name a few true "high end" 
<  transistor type amp/preamp manufacturers? I would like to listen to some 
<  and would appreciate some suggestions. Thanks in advance.
<  
<	Bob Schneider

In order of quality, I'd say:

                       Amps
                       ----

             Electron Kinetics Eagle 7A
             Threshold s/500 Series II
           Electrocompaniet Ampliwire II
                VSP Labs TransMos


For transistor Pre-Amps, try looking into RGR (Robert Grodinsky Research)
or the PS Audio units. PS Audio has a kit version, BTW. Still, the best pre-amps
are made by the tube people, namely Audio Research, CJ, and Berning.

							Mark Nevar

rjs@hpfclo.UUCP (rjs) (05/21/85)

>	3. They must not dominate the living room.  Being
>	   able to see over them out a window is a definite
>	   asset.

	My Bose 901 owners manual claims that they are to be 12" to 18"
	away from the wall. That tends to make them sit out in the
	middle of things for average sized living rooms. A big pain in
	the ***.

>	4. They must not be critical about room placement.
>	   I do not want to have to remodel every house
>	   I buy to make a place that they can live.

	Since the speakers are intended to reflect sound off the wall,
	you need to prevent putting furniture in places that will 
	interfere with the sound. Again, a real pain in the ***!


>	6. They must sound good.

....
>I have no difficulty imagining that I am seated in
>a concert hall instead of in my living room.

Your imagination is much better than mine! It has been my experience
that the Bose 901's are easy to grow out of. When I wanted to hear Rock,
and R&B at high sound levels, I enjoyed the Bose. Now that I find myself 
more interested in sound quality, I find that listening to the 901's is 
no longer an enjoyable experience. I am beginning to find myself turning 
off my system because many times listening to the 901's is tedious at
best. I only wish I could afford a pair of those damn Apogee
speakers (why did I ever listen to them :-)

Bob "Any offers on a pair of Bose 901 model II's" Schneider
{hplabs|ihnp4}!hpfcla!hpfclo!rjs

mike@smu (07/25/85)

I'd love to sell you some Spica TC-50 speakers and an Alchemist IIIS 
cartridge.  See note 54 (and response please) for information.  You
might find the Spicas especially tempting.  I'll be glad to set up an
audition at your convenience.
									Thanks, 
									   Michael Patrick

mike@smu (07/25/85)

Try the Moscode Minuet or the Audible Illusions Modulus.  I don't
remember their prices, but they are both WELL under $1000.  The 
Moscode is a tube/transistor hybrid and the Modulus is straight 
tubes.  Both are, in my experience, very sweet sounding for the 
price...      M.H.P.

mike@smu (07/25/85)

P.S. If you happen to live in the Dallas area I'd be glad to set up an
audition, that is.    Michael Patrick

mpm@hpfcla.UUCP (mpm) (08/13/85)

Re:  Carver DTL-100 CD Player

GOOD NEWS

     I am a satisfied owner of the Carver CD player.  I bought one in
early April and have been using it EXTENSIVELY since then (about three
hours plus PER DAY).
     What I like best about the Carver CD player is the simple front
panel layout.  It is simple, functional, easy-to-learn, and elegantly
executed.  By the way, it is also very light.
     I was most concerned about features when I was shopping around
for CD players - programmability and ability to repeat.  Other features
of the Carver that I like include the ability to see elapsed time per
track and total time for the disc.  As with other players, the fast
forward kicks into overdrive after holding the button down for about
ten seconds.  Finally, I admit to being a bit of a technology freak:
I wanted a player with oversampling and separate (not multiplexed)
D/A converters.
     Note:  The Carver unit does not have a remote control or headphone
jack which is a pity but I haven't missed them.
     
BAD NEWS

     Old problem:  I had the player in the shop after about two months
because it would not play one of my (Warner Brothers) discs once it
had warmed up.  The repair folk cleaned and realigned the unit and I
have not seen a repeat of the problem.  (Strange thing was that the
fault only occurred with one disc.  I have since heard others talk of
problems with tracking Warner discs.)
     I had a Denon loaner unit while my Carver was in the shop and
practically went into withdrawal.  I did NOT like the Denon.  It was
overloaded with buttons and framishes.  Also my loaner had a problem
detecting discs in the tray.  (The Denon was very heavy also.)
     New problem:  occasionally my player fails to respond when I push
a button (like PAUSE or STOP).  A friend of mine thinks it is a prob-
lem with the solenoids.  Once I have a better grasp of the problem
(like how to consistently duplicate it), I plan on taking it in for
repair.  Meanwhile the problem is a minor irritant.
     
     Despite the problems I love the Carver player.  I recommend it
highly.  By the way, the DTL-100 uses 2x oversampling and as far as
I know uses separate D/A converters.
     One last point:  the DTL-100 lists for $649.  I have not found
any mail order houses that offer it for a discount.  However, I was
able to buy the unit for $589 (about 10% off).

			-- Mike "digital crazy" McCarthy
			   (ihnp4!hpfcla!hpfcms!) mpm
     
P.S. The "digital time lens" circuit in the player is NOT the same as
the "sonic hologram" in other Carver equipment (preamps I think).  The
DTL circuit is meant to compensate for some sonic differences that Car-
ver (the man) found between CDs and LPs of the same recording.  I rarely
use it.  (In fact I'm not sure I can detect its effect.)  I had an audio
salesperson switch the circuit in and out without me knowing what set-
ting it was in and I couldn't tell the difference.  (I listened to the
player for most of two to three hours when I was auditioning it, but by
no means consider myself a golden-eared audiophile.)

mpm@hpfcla.UUCP (mpm) (08/13/85)

Re:  Addendum to the Carver Review

     I forgot to mention this in my review:  I wanted a player that
was tray loaded from the front.  I do not like the top loading design
of the Magnavox and Meridian players.

     For those of you who get religious about your audio equipment:
the top-loading CP player designs seem on their way to joining leisure
suits and three lane highways (the middle lane was a shared, bidirec-
tional passing lane).  They just don't meet the needs of the real (?)
world.

		-- Mike "roast me now, or roast me later" McCarthy
		   (ihnp4!hpfcla!hpfcms!) mpm