[net.audio] Analogue Masters X-ferred to CD

greg@olivee.UUCP (Greg Paley) (08/23/85)

A previous article questioned the value of CD's made from
analogue source material.

I am sure that there are a number of cases where nothing is
gained and, in fact, something may be lost in this process.
However, I've heard several examples where, at least on the
equipment I've been able to use for comparisons, there has been
a striking difference between an LP and CD from an analogue
original.  I say "difference" rather than "improvement" because,
although I've generally preferred the CD, not everyone will agree.

Examples of this sort that I own or have listened to carefully 
are all on the London label, all originated in Vienna and
featured the Vienna Philharmonic, and are, specifically:

Mahler: Das Lied von der Erde (Ferrier/Patzak/Vienna Philharmonic/
	Bruno Walter, cond.)  Recorded in the Musikvereinsaal,
	Vienna, 1952.  I believe the producer was Victor Olof, but
	I'm not certain about this.

Wagner: Ring Des Nibelungen (Nilsson/Windgassen/Ludwig/Hotter, etc.
	Vienna Philharmonic/Georg Solti, cond.)  Recorded in the
	Sofiensaal, Vienna 1958 (Rheingold), 1960-61 (Siegfried),
	1964 (Goetterdaemmerung), 1965 (Walkuere).  Produced by
	John Culshaw.

R. Strauss: Salome (Nilsson/Waechter/Stolze/Hoffman/Vienna
	Philharmonic/Georg Solti, cond.)  Recorded in the Sofiensaal,
	Vienna, 1962.  Produced by John Culshaw.

In each of these cases, I hear a greater detail and clarity that I
feel must approximate more closely the original master tape than
the analogue LP.  However, there is also (particularly on the Salome)
a greater impression of depth and a much "sweeter" sound to the strings
and voices.  I feel that this is a case where the analogue process
provides what some would find a benign masking of some of the harshness
picked up by the mikes on the original master.  I know that there are
those who will argue violently with this and contend that any such
harshness is a distortion which has been added by the "digitization"
process.  My reason for arguing against this is that the occasional
harshness and stridency I hear on the "Ring" and "Salome" recordings
have been characteristic of what I've heard, when sitting close to
the stage, from a number of those same singers that I've had occasion
to hear live (Nilsson, in particular) as well as the actual string
tone I've heard in live performance from the Vienna Philharmonic.

Certainly, changes in personnel would indicate that the playing I
would have heard live from that orchestra over the last ten years
could be radically different from what was there at the time of these older
recordings.  Nonetheless, I feel it worth mentioning that the sound
of the Vienna string section when I've heard the orchestra live was
not the airy, sweet sound I expected from earlier, analogue recordings
but was, in fact, the icy clear, resinous, and gutsy sound as reproduced
on some of the better digital recordings.

This does, however, make it plausible to me that it would not be so
terribly contradictory if someone were to say that he found digital
recordings more accurate but that he preferred the analogue.  I
find this difference in tastes analogous to that between two concertgoers,
one of whom prefers to sit up close whereas the other prefers the
seat in the highest balcony.

	- Greg Paley

rfg@hound.UUCP (R.GRANTGES) (08/25/85)

[]
Bravo, Mr. Paley, well said.
I look at it this way. Most really good masters were made on
superior equipment - like 15 or 30 ips tape. If I can get that
quality level in my home, I think it will probably be ok.
Especially now that most (well, many) ((well, some)) engineers
are beginning to get the hang of how to "cut" a digital recording
without doing something horribly wrong.
I have found "live" cassette quality to be perfectly satisfactory,
except for a bit of hiss, although even that is gone with some
of the newer formulations and good equipment.  By live, I mean
original redcordings I made myself on location. Now, the tape
masters in industry are usually better than that, although only
now can they get that level transferred to my home.  
So far, the tape mastered stuff I have is great ...only why is there
that damn bass thumping in Rheingold? Surely they could/should have
eliminated that. I haven't checked my disc copy but I'm pretty sure
it wasn't there. Somehow it must have gotten in in the remastering
process, but that doesn't make sense...

-- 

"It's the thought, if any, that counts!"  Dick Grantges  hound!rfg

greg@olivee.UUCP (Greg Paley) (08/26/85)

> So far, the tape mastered stuff I have is great ...only why is there
> that damn bass thumping in Rheingold? Surely they could/should have
> eliminated that. I haven't checked my disc copy but I'm pretty sure
> it wasn't there. Somehow it must have gotten in in the remastering
> process, but that doesn't make sense...
> 
> -- 
> 
> "It's the thought, if any, that counts!"  Dick Grantges  hound!rfg

I hadn't noticed the "bass thumping" problem on my English Decca
"Rheingold" pressings when playing it on my Sony direct-drive table
with Audioquest 404 cartridge - although I also noticed it on the CD.
Playing the records on a friend's Sota/MMT/Koetsu combination - the
thumps are there.  I have no idea what it is.

In a similar line, I found that when I bought my Vandersteen IIc
speakers, they "revealed" on the 1952 Flagstad/Furtwaengler "Tristan"
recording, the unmistakable sound of the London subway passing
underneath Kingsway Hall, particularly noticeable during stretches
of Act I.

	- Greg Paley