[net.audio] level matching and a-b comparisons

prk@charm.UUCP (Paul Kolodner) (08/24/85)

I think the people who are arguing on the net about the importance
of precise level matching when comparing equipment have missed a
point.  In my home, not only do I not have the equipment necessary
for accurate level matching between two pieces of equipment, I
don't have the second piece of equipment!  If a worse cd player
or speaker can be made to sound subjectively better than a good
one by increasing the sound level, then the solution is fairly
obvious: buy it and turn it up loud!

rfg@hound.UUCP (R.GRANTGES) (08/25/85)

[]
Better yet, turn up the volume and keep the one you have. THAT
is the massage, you seem to have missed.

Better for you anyway, if not your friendly purveyor of audiola.

-- 

"It's the thought, if any, that counts!"  Dick Grantges  hound!rfg

jj@alice.UUCP (08/25/85)

Unfortunately, Paul, it doesn't work like that.  A SMALL level difference
will introduce apparant phase and amplitude differences when one is 
doing a careful AB test.  That doesn't say that either is better,
only that there is a subtle, non-amplitude-linked sort of perceptual
reaction to slight level differences.  Each individual reacts differently,
ergo there isn't any hard and fast rule whether on not louder
or softer is better.

Feel free to decide in your case, but leave my hair-cells alone!


-- 
SUPPORT SECULAR TEDDY-BEAR-ISM.
"You, who are on the road, must have a code that you can live by."

(ihnp4/allegra)!alice!jj

mgv@duke.UUCP (Marco G. Valtorta) (08/27/85)

Some people (including a former salesperson) on the net have claimed
that subjectively louder will always sound better.  Someone else
concluded that therefore one could as well buy cheaper equipment,
play it a little louder, and enjoy sound which is subjectively
better than sound played on more expensive equipment played at slightly
lower levels.  The only reply that I have seen to this is that
in reality slight *differences* in sound level make slight differences
in perceived sound quality.  Would any of the people (there were
several) who argued that louder is *better*  (not just *different*)
care to comment on this?

					Marco Valtorta
					mgv@duke

rdp@teddy.UUCP (08/28/85)

In article <6179@duke.UUCP> mgv@duke.UUCP (Marco G. Valtorta) writes:
>Some people (including a former salesperson) on the net have claimed
>that subjectively louder will always sound better.  Someone else
>concluded that therefore one could as well buy cheaper equipment,
>play it a little louder, and enjoy sound which is subjectively
>better than sound played on more expensive equipment played at slightly
>lower levels.  The only reply that I have seen to this is that
>in reality slight *differences* in sound level make slight differences
>in perceived sound quality.  Would any of the people (there were
>several) who argued that louder is *better*  (not just *different*)
>care to comment on this?
>
>					Marco Valtorta
>					mgv@duke

I believe I am one of those people (I may even be the "former salesperson")

The one example I gave did in fact fool people into thinking that the louder
was better, but in that case, the only difference was loudness, as the
equipment was otherwise identical.

I hope that I did not imply, other than for the one experiment, that louder
is automatically better, as this does not bear out in actual experience.

However, in many cases, especially with less than very experienced
listeners, the immediate difference perceivable is loudness, and often
this is enough to make a person ignore other, seemingly greater, differences.

The point of the article I submitted is that valid comparisons cannot be
made without first reducing all extraneous variables to a minimum. Audio
tests and comparisons, on the whole, are done in a most inexact and
unscientific manner, and invite all sorts of biases and fraud.

If it were indeed true that louder is better, than recordings made of my
harpsichord played much louder than my harpsichord should sound much better
than my harpsichord.

Ah, well...

Dick Pierce

rfg@hound.UUCP (R.GRANTGES) (08/28/85)

I think I made the remark about playing the equipment you have
a little louder and saving the $$.  As I frequently do, I "forgot"
to put in the  :-)  .
It is certainly true that large differences in quality are going to be
perceived despite a level mismatch.  Where level matching is most important
is when the two things being compared are <both> very good and you are
looking for small differences.

-- 

"It's the thought, if any, that counts!"  Dick Grantges  hound!rfg