mancello@acf4.UUCP (Homeboy#1) (10/31/85)
I have a Carver 900 Receiver, and when I have the Tuner engaged with the Volume knob turned all the way down, I can still hear output from the Tuner thru my speakers. The sound is pretty low, but disturbing. This only poses a problem when I have the Monitor switch set to 1 and am listening to a tape being played while the Tuner button is engaged. I can engage another function button (Phono or Aux) to remedy the problem, but is there an easy solution to my problem? Also, what causes this leakage in the first place? -Dominic Mancello (cmcl2!acf4!mancello)
herbie@polaris.UUCP (Herb Chong) (11/01/85)
In article <4960004@acf4.UUCP> mancello@acf4.UUCP (Homeboy#1) writes: >I have a Carver 900 Receiver, and when I have the Tuner engaged with the >Volume knob turned all the way down, I can still hear output from the Tuner >thru my speakers. The sound is pretty low, but disturbing. This only poses >a problem when I have the Monitor switch set to 1 and am listening to a tape >being played while the Tuner button is engaged. I can engage another function >button (Phono or Aux) to remedy the problem, but is there an easy solution >to my problem? Also, what causes this leakage in the first place? it sounds like you have crosstalk problems. the only real way around this involves improved shielding and re-routing of signal carrying leads. any amplifier will have a certain amount of crosstalk, not matter how good it is. whether it is objectionable or not is another question. since you have an easy circumvention why not use it. Herb Chong... I'm still user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble.... New net address -- VNET,BITNET,NETNORTH,EARN: HERBIE AT YKTVMH UUCP: {allegra|cbosgd|cmcl2|decvax|ihnp4|seismo}!philabs!polaris!herbie CSNET: herbie.yktvmh@ibm-sj.csnet ARPA: herbie.yktvmh.ibm-sj.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
zzz@mit-eddie.UUCP (Mike Konopik) (11/01/85)
I've noticed this phenomenon with many of the receivers I've listened to for any period of time (especially when using headphones). Sometimes I even get small leakage when the tuner isn't engaged at all. Odd. I've been wondering about something related to playing records that bugs the hell outta me - on some records there is a very faint "ghost" of sorts that comes about a second or so before the real signal (eg. when listening during the space between songs, the beginning of the ensuing song can be heard faintly to precede the actual music by about a second). Some of the records I have (like OMR's and other half-speed masters) are pleasingly free of this disturbance. The question in my mind is this: are there any turntables around that can handle this sort of quirk? Also, how on earth do the recording companies get away with this sort of bad-quality production? Ack. -- -Mike genrad!mit-eddie!zzz (UUCP) ZZZ%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC (ARPA)
shop@uwmcsd1.UUCP (Electronics Shop) (11/02/85)
> I've been wondering about something related to playing records that bugs > the hell outta me - on some records there is a very faint "ghost" of sorts > that comes about a second or so before the real signal (eg. when listening > during the space between songs, the beginning of the ensuing song can be > heard faintly to precede the actual music by about a second). Some of the > records I have (like OMR's and other half-speed masters) are pleasingly > free of this disturbance. > > The question in my mind is this: are there any turntables around that > can handle this sort of quirk? Also, how on earth do the recording > companies get away with this sort of bad-quality production? Ack. > -- > > -Mike This is called 'print-through'. It is caused by adjacent layers of the master tape interacting magnetically. I have found it most in re-issues of older recordings. The record companies get away with it because the only copy they may have has been affected, and they want to get that recording out on the market bad enough not to recut the master tape. To prevent this in your own reel tape recordings (and to a limited extent, cassette) store a tape 'tail end out' or not rewound... rewind before listening. The packing of the tape on the reel is more even and less likely to rub while relieving stresses. Thomas Krueger -- Engineering Electronics Shop U of W - Milwaukee ihnp4!uwmcsd1!shop uwmcsd1!shop@wisc-rsch.arpa
ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) (11/03/85)
> I've been wondering about something related to playing records that bugs > the hell outta me - on some records there is a very faint "ghost" of sorts > that comes about a second or so before the real signal (eg. when listening > during the space between songs, the beginning of the ensuing song can be > heard faintly to precede the actual music by about a second). Some of the > records I have (like OMR's and other half-speed masters) are pleasingly > free of this disturbance. This phenomenon occurs on records as well as tapes -- it's called "pre-echo" in those circumstances. You can circumvent it by buying compact discs instead of LPs. :-)
ben@moncol.UUCP (Bennett Broder) (11/03/85)
>> I've been wondering about something related to playing records that bugs >> the hell outta me - on some records there is a very faint "ghost" of sorts >> that comes about a second or so before the real signal (eg. when listening >> during the space between songs, the beginning of the ensuing song can be >> heard faintly to precede the actual music by about a second). Some of the >> records I have (like OMR's and other half-speed masters) are pleasingly >> free of this disturbance. >> >> The question in my mind is this: are there any turntables around that >> can handle this sort of quirk? Also, how on earth do the recording >> companies get away with this sort of bad-quality production? Ack. > >This is called 'print-through'. It is caused by adjacent layers of the >master tape interacting magnetically. Arghhh!! Not again. This discussion seems to come up every six months like clockwork. Maybe we can get Spaf to add it to the list of frequently asked questions in net.announce.newusers. One more time... The ghost you hear is not caused by tape print through. It is caused by a deformation of the vinyl. Why? 1. You can find the problem in many all-digital and brand new recordings. 2. The problem is not observed on Compact Disc versions of these LPs. 3. The ghost appears exactly one turntable revolution before the music begins. If you want more reading on the subject, perhaps you could find someone who archives net.audio to mail you the 2 zillion previous articles on this topic. 1/2 :-). Ben Broder
herbie@polaris.UUCP (Herb Chong) (11/04/85)
In article <276@mit-eddie.UUCP> zzz@mit-eddie.UUCP (Mike Konopik) writes: >I've been wondering about something related to playing records that bugs >the hell outta me - on some records there is a very faint "ghost" of sorts >that comes about a second or so before the real signal (eg. when listening >during the space between songs, the beginning of the ensuing song can be >heard faintly to precede the actual music by about a second). Some of the >records I have (like OMR's and other half-speed masters) are pleasingly >free of this disturbance. this is often called pre-echo and is a property of the individual record you play. the grooves are not really independent of each other and during cutting, one groove can slightly deform a previously cut groove enough to produce the pre-echo. putting grooves too close together or using inferior vinyl can cause this, though groove spacing is the primary reason. i'm sure that there will be lots of articles that will point out this to you. Herb Chong... I'm still user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble.... New net address -- VNET,BITNET,NETNORTH,EARN: HERBIE AT YKTVMH UUCP: {allegra|cbosgd|cmcl2|decvax|ihnp4|seismo}!philabs!polaris!herbie CSNET: herbie.yktvmh@ibm-sj.csnet ARPA: herbie.yktvmh.ibm-sj.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
c20@nmtvax.UUCP (11/05/85)
> > things about tuner leakage here ... > > I've been wondering about something related to playing records that bugs > the hell outta me - on some records there is a very faint "ghost" of sorts > that comes about a second or so before the real signal (eg. when listening > during the space between songs, the beginning of the ensuing song can be > heard faintly to precede the actual music by about a second). Some of the > records I have (like OMR's and other half-speed masters) are pleasingly > free of this disturbance. > > The question in my mind is this: are there any turntables around that > can handle this sort of quirk? Also, how on earth do the recording > companies get away with this sort of bad-quality production? Ack. > -- > > -Mike > > genrad!mit-eddie!zzz (UUCP) ZZZ%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC (ARPA) This "ghosting" effect is caused by making a record with the grooves too close together for the recording level. When the record is pressed, the vinyl between the grooves is stressed slightly (note: the vinyl is slightly warm at this point). After the die is removed from the record, the record begins cooling. However, before it cools enough, the stressed plastic *between* the grooves begins relaxing, and each groove takes on a little of the waveform of the NEXT groove. If you check, you should find that the ghost sound starts exactly one revolution (slightly less than two seconds at 33.333 rpm) before the equivalent real sound begins. It's bad enough to hear the ghosting effect before the song starts, but it's worse when you realize that if this happens on the first groove, it's probably happening on all the other grooves too. So every part of the music you hear has this not-quite-hearable "fuzz" on top of it, which is the very-quietly-played sound of both of the adjacent grooves. A record company can prevent this either by increasing the inter-groove spacing, or by making quieter records (i.e., records with smaller wiggles in the grooves) greg -- Greg Titus ..!ucbvax!unmvax!nmtvax!c20 (uucp) NM Tech Computer Center ..!cmcl2!lanl!nmtvax!c20 (uucp) Box W209 C/S c20@nmt (CSnet) Socorro, NM 87801 c20.nmt@csnet-relay (arpa) (505) 835-5735 ======================================================================