[net.audio] Absolute phase

keithe@tekgvs.UUCP (10/21/86)

In article <1371@uwmcsd1.UUCP> shop@uwmcsd1.UUCP (Thomas Krueger) writes:
>
>Absolute phase in this case refers to the idea that most music is "positive
>pulses" and not "negative pulses". Take for example a drumstick hitting a
>cymbal. The first wave that hits your ear will be a compression followed by
>a rarefaction, etc. Many people think that if the first reproduced wave
>that hits your ear is a "negative" rarefaction, that the music will sound
>unnatural. Empirically, I tend to agree. Others say that most music is
>mostly "positive" pulses with much fewer "negative" pulses. 

Are you telling me that my eardrum wants to go "in" before it goes "out?"

To borrow a punchline form an old joke*: "How do it know?!"

I'm having a LOT of trouble believing this one...

keith

*Joke will be supplied upon request :-)

ben@catnip.UUCP (Bennett Broder) (10/23/86)

In article <1842@tekgvs.UUCP> keithe@tekgvs.UUCP (Keith Ericson) writes:
>In article <1371@uwmcsd1.UUCP> shop@uwmcsd1.UUCP (Thomas Krueger) writes:
>>Absolute phase in this case refers to the idea that most music is "positive
>>pulses" and not "negative pulses". Take for example a drumstick hitting a
>>cymbal. The first wave that hits your ear will be a compression followed by
>>a rarefaction, etc. Many people think that if the first reproduced wave
>>that hits your ear is a "negative" rarefaction, that the music will sound
>>unnatural. Empirically, I tend to agree. Others say that most music is
>>mostly "positive" pulses with much fewer "negative" pulses. 
>
>Are you telling me that my eardrum wants to go "in" before it goes "out?"
>
>To borrow a punchline form an old joke*: "How do it know?!"
>
>I'm having a LOT of trouble believing this one...

Another way to think of it is: when the diaphram in the microphone moves
in, so do the drivers in your speaker.  Some instruments (like the
trumpet) have very asymetrical wave forms, so this could make an audible
difference.


-- 

Ben Broder
{ihnp4,decvax} !hjuxa!catnip!ben
{houxm,topaz}/

sasaki@endor.UUCP (10/23/86)

A friend of mine did some psycho-acoustic tests and it was easy to
tell the difference with hand claps and human voice, and almost
impossible with musical instruments that included strings, reeds, and
horns.

The tests weren't exactly double blind, my friend made a tape where
pairs of test sounds were recorded with about 5 seconds of silence
between. The order of the sounds was determined by a dice throw and my
friend tried hard to make everything else equal. Everyone listened to
the same tape, alone in the testing room. We were told to mark on a
sheet of paper whether the sounds were the same or were different.
I'm sure that there were some biases introduced, but the test was
pretty good.

As for whether the results of the experiment have any bearing on music
heard on audio system, I can't say, and don't want to get flamed for
an opinion either way. I just present this information as an
indication that you can tell the difference in absolute phase under
(highly artificial) test conditions.


----------------
  Marty Sasaki				uucp:   harvard!sasaki
  Strategic Information			arpa:	sasaki@harvard.harvard.edu
  80 Blanchard Road			bitnet: sasaki@harvunxh
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pmr@drutx.UUCP (RastocnyP) (10/25/86)

[?]

The psychoacoustic phenomenon I observe on my system when absolute phase is
manipulated (and it is in many albums, J.M. Jarre's "Oxygene" comes
immediately to mind, where absolute phase trickery is used) is that the
soundstage leaps from behind the plane of the loudspeakers to in front of
the plane of the loudspeakers.  So an album recorded out of absolute phase
(Sheffield Lab even produced one) has the psychoacoustic illusion that the
musicians are standing in the middle of the listening room.

But in "Oxygene", Jarre uses this technique creatively to start sounds, say
in the left channel in front of the loudspeakers (out of phase) and the pan
the sound to the right channel, invert the phase (in phase), reduce the
volume, and increase the echo content.  The result is a psychoacoustic
illusion that resembles a small model rocket launched from the left of
and in front of the left loudspeaker and traveling to a point way to the
right of and behind the right loudspeaker.  (The other sounds in this all
electronic music album are contained behind the plane of the loudspeakers.)

Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, the Cars, Kitaro, and Vangelis have also used
similar absolute phase trickery in their albums.  While absolute phase on
most stereos is not blatently obvious (the system must have a significant
amount of soundstage depth), some albums on some refined systems can
produce very interresting effects.


		Yours for higher fidelity,
		Phil Rastocny
		AT&T-ISL
		..!drutx!pmr