dan@rna.UUCP (Dan Ts'o) (10/15/86)
From postnews Tue Oct 14 18:13:21 1986 Subject: MTS stereo decoders ? Newsgroups: net.video,net.audio x Now that MCTV is cablecasting in stereo regularly, it seems time to get a MTS decoder for my non-MTS TV and VCR. Any recommendations ? J&R Music World has one Recoton V-622 for $130. It mentions something about a special probe for TV's that don't have MTS outputs. Anyone know what thats about ? Since I get cable and use my VCR I assume all I need is a MTS receiver that will provide stereo audio output from TV channel 3. Right ? I would prefer a device that conforms to the more critically audio performance specs of audiophile gear. Thanks. Cheers, Dan Ts'o Dept. Neurobiology Rockefeller Univ. 1230 York Ave. NY, NY 10021 212-570-7671 ...cmcl2!rna!dan rna!dan@cmcl2.arpa
ebh@cord.UUCP (Ed Horch) (10/16/86)
In article <559@rna.UUCP> dan@rna.UUCP writes: >J&R Music World has one Recoton V-622 for $130. >I would prefer a device that conforms to the more critically audio >performance specs of audiophile gear. Well, you've just listed half of the MTS decoders on the (mass) market, the other being the Radio Shack "Stereo TV Receiver", which costs $140. I don't know how they compare sonically. I bought the RS unit because the Recoton unit does not decode the SAP, and the RS box does. The sound quality is by no means "audiophile", but I suspect that the source is more at fault here than the decoder. Hard to tell. > Since I get cable and use my VCR I assume all I need is a MTS >receiver that will provide stereo audio output from TV channel 3. Right ? Pretty much, but there are a few snags. Consider the following scenario, which is what I had to deal with: 1. Cable provides MTS-encoded signal (win) 2. Cable Converter does not pass L-R info (lose) 3. Local UHF station brodcasts in MTS (win) 4. Cable doesn't carry that channel (lose) 5. HBO et al come in stereo (win) 6. Cable system sends those on FM not MTS (lose) 7. MTS decoder is not cable-capable (lose) In order to handle all permutations, you'll need: 1. A bunch of 75ohm coax cables 2. VHF, UHF and FM antennas 3. A two-way video splitter 4. Two video switches (All are available from Radio Shack) Connect them thus: | unconverted | cable | +-----------+ | splitter | ___ +-----------+ FM ant \|/ | | | | +-----------+ ___ | | | converter | \|/ VHF ant +----------+ +-----------+ | | Switch 1 | | | +----------+ +----------+ | | Switch 2 | ___ | +----------+ \|/ UHF ant | | | Receiver | MTS VHF | | MTS UHF FM input | input | | input Connect the LINE outputs of the MTS box to any LINE input on your receiver, and connect the VHF and UHF outputs of the MTS box to the VHF and UHF inputs on your {TV,VCR}. Here are the switch settings for the various scenarios: 1. For normal FM listening, set Switch 1 to the FM antenna. 2. For a cable station in mono, set Switch 2 to the converted cable, and the MTS box and TV to Channel 3. 3. For a VHF/UHF broadcast station in stereo and for any broadcast station not carried by cable, set Switch 2 to the VHF or UHF antenna, and the MTS box and TV to that channel. 4. For a cable station with FM stereo, set Switch 1 to the unconverted cable, and the FM tuner to whatever frequency the sound is on. Video is the same as #2 above. 5. FM Simulcasts of broadcast stations are the same as #3, but with switch 1 set to the FM antenna. 6. FM Simulcasts of cable stations are the same as #4, but with switch 1 set to the FM antenna. This same scheme, with slight modifications, works as well with VCR's with built-in MTS decoders. (I've done both.) The only real drawback of this scheme is that it limits the usefulness of the wireless remote(s). Hope this helps, -Ed Horch ihnp4!cord!ebh Vorsprung durch Technik
dave@uwmcsd1.UUCP (Dave Rasmussen) (10/17/86)
> Xref: uwmacc net.video:3112 net.audio:7283 > > In article <559@rna.UUCP> dan@rna.UUCP writes: >>J&R Music World has one Recoton V-622 for $130. >>I would prefer a device that conforms to the more critically audio >>performance specs of audiophile gear. > > Well, you've just listed half of the MTS decoders on the (mass) market, > the other being the Radio Shack "Stereo TV Receiver", which costs $140. I think I started this conversation about decoders a couple weeks ago, and have since ordered a hi fi vcr. A couple days after ordering I got a new DAK catalog and they have a ADC V400 Sound Processor for $69. It lists it has simulated stereo, stereo wide, and dnr noise reduction. Anyone have anything to say about this unit? My vcr doesn't have noise reduction, and might consider trying this unit for 30 days... Also, does anyone have anything good or bad to say about the teac deck DAK has advertised with dbx? -- The views above are those of my keyboard, not my organization. Dave Rasmussen c/o Computing Services Division @ U of WI - Milwaukee INTERNET: uwmcsd1!dave@rsch.wisc.edu UUCP: ihnp4!uwmcsd1!dave
aptr@ur-tut.UUCP (The Wumpus) (10/21/86)
In article <1372@uwmcsd1.UUCP> dave@uwmcsd1.UUCP (Dave Rasmussen) writes: >I think I started this conversation about decoders a couple weeks ago, and >have since ordered a hi fi vcr. A couple days after ordering I got a new >DAK catalog and they have a ADC V400 Sound Processor for $69. It lists >it has simulated stereo, stereo wide, and dnr noise reduction. Anyone have >anything to say about this unit? My vcr doesn't have noise reduction, and >might consider trying this unit for 30 days... > I believe the $69 dollar unit from DAK only simulates stereo sound. It is not the samething that a stereo vcr put out. A stereo VCR puts out a true stereo with both tracks having the ability to be independent. A stereo simulator takes a mono signal, plays with it, and then puts to signals out. There are several different ways that it does this, and I am not really sure on the specifics of each. The important thing is that the signal comes from mono and is only simulated stereo. It is probably not the samething the orignal stereo signal was. BTW, I think that part of the MTS standard is some type of noise reduction (dbx?). I also believe that on a Beta Hi-Fi, the stereo tracks are almost imune to audible noise because the signals are laid down by the same set of sweeping heads that puts down the audio. Needless to say, the scan rate for the audio is several times greater then that of a standard tape recorder and therefore the frquency of the noise is also several times higher. -- The Wumpus UUCP: {seismo,allegra,decvax}!rochester!ur-tut!aptr BITNET: aptrccss@uorvm Disclaimer: "Who? When? Me? It was the Booze!" - M. Binkley
perl@rdin.UUCP (10/21/86)
Well, here's what I know, for all it's worth:
Whether a stereo VCR has MTS built into its tuner or not, it is still a
'stereo' VCR, not an 'MTS' VCR. What I mean by that is that the VCR
records two audio channels. It doesn't know or care where those two
channels came from. The RF output of the VCR is created by mixing the
two channels from the tape into a mono channel that is sent to your TV
in the conventional way. When you are watching TV 'through the VCR',
the VCR tuner is converting an RF input into video and audio. The
video and audio are then converted to Channel 3 RF just as if they were
coming off of tape. Therefore, even if your VCR has MTS, it will not
pass the MTS signal along to your TV. You can of course connect the
audio outputs of the VCR to your HiFi.
As for the MTS decoders with the probe, since the VCR creates its own
Channel 3 signal from the audio output of its tuner, the signal going
into your TV will not have the MTS signal in it even if the signal is
being broadcast. You would have to attach the probe to the VCR to pick
up the MTS signal that is being received by the VCR's tuner and attach
the probe to your TV when not using your VCR.
As for noise reduction on HiFi VCR's, I haven't seen it used. I don't
know how VCR HiFi works, but I have reason to believe that there is
some technical reason that makes noise reduction incompatable or
unnecessary with the HiFi tracks. Many pre-recorded HiFi tapes specify
that they have noise reduction on the linear tracks only.
Robert Perlberg
Resource Dynamics Inc.
New York
{philabs|delftcc}!rdin!perlperkins@bnrmtv.UUCP (Henry Perkins) (10/22/86)
Robert Perlberg {philabs|delftcc}!rdin!perl writes: > ... When you are watching TV 'through the VCR', > the VCR tuner is converting an RF input into video and audio. The > video and audio are then converted to Channel 3 RF just as if they were > coming off of tape. Therefore, even if your VCR has MTS, it will not > pass the MTS signal along to your TV. It doesn't necessarily work that way. Many newer stereo TVs have separate direct video and audio (left, right) inputs. You can connect the 1 video and 2 audio outputs from the VCR into the corresponding inputs on your TV. Your last statement is technically correct, though. The TV doesn't see an MTS-encoded signal, but rather two separate audio channels. -- {hplabs,amdahl,3comvax}!bnrmtv!perkins --Henry Perkins It is better never to have been born. But who among us has such luck? One in a million, perhaps.
brown@nicmad.UUCP (10/26/86)
In article <587@rdin.UUCP> perl@rdin.UUCP writes: >Well, here's what I know, for all it's worth: > >[.....] > >As for noise reduction on HiFi VCR's, I haven't seen it used. I don't >know how VCR HiFi works, but I have reason to believe that there is >some technical reason that makes noise reduction incompatable or >unnecessary with the HiFi tracks. Many pre-recorded HiFi tapes specify >that they have noise reduction on the linear tracks only. Sorry, but VHS Hi-Fi decks do use a noise reduction system. It is unique to the VHS decks, has always been used, so no special symbol is required. The Dolby Stereo, for the linear tracks, is shown because it is required in the license. -- ihnp4------\ harvard-\ \ Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown topaz-/ / decvax------/
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (10/27/86)
Hi, 1. To the best of my knowledge, no comsumer grade VCR has a modulator that can create an MTS signal. The MTS modulation is very much akin to creating an FM multiplex signal. This is rather expensive, especially since the TV MTS uses dbx encoding on the L-R part of the signal. Also, most stereo monitor/TVs have audio line jacks any way. (I know the VCR is in the living room and the TV is in the bedroom, oh well...) 2. Both VHS-Hifi and Beta Hifi use companders on the Hifi tracks. True, the formula is not as complicated as dbx or dolby. 3. Some VCRs do indeed have the capacity to decode dolby-ized video tapes. Mitsubishi makes one, I'm sure there are others too. 4. Several boxes are around: NEC AV-300, Sony, Yammaha that can recover the dolby surround-sound signals. On a decently done tape, the effect can be pretty neat, although, I'm not sure if you'd call it audiophile! Bill Bill Mayhew Division of Basic Medical Sciences Northeastern Ohio Universities' College of Medicine Rootstown, OH 44272 USA phone: 216-325-2511 wtm@neoucom.UUCP or ...!cbatt!neoucom!wtm , etc.
wlrc@neoucom.UUCP (William Cruce) (10/27/86)
There are several reasons why noise reduction is needed for the audio FM (Hi Fi) signal in both Beta and VHS VCRs, not the least of which is to reduce the switching noise which occurs at the end of each video frame (a recent issue of Stereophile magazine has a pretty good discussion of the subject). Unfortunately both Sony (Beta) and JVC (VHS) developed their own noise reduction systems instead of licensing from someone like DBX or Dolby who know what they're doing. The noise reduction systems do terrible things to the sound, especially evident on sounds with high frequency transients - cymbals, tamborines, wood blocks - but generally pretty nasty to lots of musical sounds. Dolby noise reduction is used on the linear track of some VHS VCRs - those that split the linear track in two in order to get stereo (the track becomes so small that noise reduction was mandatory even when listening over a TV set). Beta never marketed a VCR with stereo linear tracks in the USA, although I understand they did in Japan and/or Europe. Dolby also has a system or systems for creating "surround sound" in movie theaters (the system incorporates dolby noise reduction for the rear channels). Any movie which has the Dolby logo in the credits at the end probably has the surround sound information encoded in the stereo tracks exactly as it is for 35mm theatre films (70mm uses a different Dolby surround sound system with discrete tracks for the extra channels). I don't think any VCRs are available which will decode the surround sound signal directly. But if you have a HI FI VCR (possibly it would work with a VHS Stereo Linear track) and add on a Surround Sound Decoder (ones with the Dolby logo will adhere to certain standards which probably assure a better decoding of the signal - though there are non-proprietary ways of extracting the information) you can get surrround sound (extra speakers required, some decoders have built in rear channel amps). THE QUESTION: Does anyone out there have hands on experience with the various decoders? Which has cleanest sound? Which does the best job of creating "surround sound". Bill Cruce, N.E. Ohio Univs. College of Medicine : :wq
fjo@ttrda.UUCP (Frank Owen ) (10/29/86)
There was a claim in this article that both VHS and Beta use companding in their HiFi tracks. I was under the impresion that the Beta machines have such a high signal to noise ratio, that no noise reduction is necessary. Would someone correct me if I'm wrong?