roberts@sunray.UUCP (Robert Stanley) (05/19/89)
We have had an amazing amount of speculation on the subject of driving,
particularly driving faster than the posted speed limit, over the last
few weeks. Clearly it is a divisive issue, and it would appear that
many of us are misinformed and ignorant, at least with respect to some
of the issues that have been raised.
Consensus (of sorts) to date:
* In Ontario it is illegal to exceed the posted speed limit under all
normal highway driving circumstances.
* The various Ontario police forces apply some interpretation to the
enforcement of the law, and usually will not worry about 10%-15%
over the posted speed limit if you appear to be driving safely.
* The overall driving standard is low in Ontario, very probably because
the driver certification procedure is set at a low level and there is
no re-certification.
* There are some excellent drivers (a few possibly on the net :-)) and
they are capable of driving safely at far higher than the posted limit
without endangering their fellow road users. They are also aware that
they are breaking the law, and are presumably prepared to take the
consequences of being caught practicing their high-speed driving skills.
* There are a large number of drivers in Ontario who resent any such
demonstration of skill, and are sufficiently ignorant of all the
various issues to attempt to frustrate such exercises. This is a
hazard of which the skilled driver must be exceptionally wary.
* Radar detectors can indeed be used to advantage, but there are serious
consequences of being caught with one in your vehicle in Ontario,
especially if you were using it. The police have techniques,
technology, and law on their side, the radar-detector user has only
native wit.
* Elsewhere in the world things are different. There are countries where
roads are posted with limits which represent the engineering capabilities
of the road-vehicle system, which are regularly travelled by a high
percentage of skilled drivers, who therefore have no need of prosthetic
driving aids such as radar detectors, and where the police forces apply
sensible laws with careful interpretation deemed fair by all. I am
quite certain that I have never driven in such territory, and I have my
doubts that all these things exist in one place.
* Driving faster requires more gasoline than driving slower in the same
vehicle, but it is possible to drive some vehicles very fast and use
less gasoline than driving a different vehicle much slower.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming! In all this heated net
speculation there has been an astonishing paucity of facts, saving only the
posting of various sections of the Highway Traffic Act. Have there ever
been, and does anyone on the net have access to, studies that demonstrate:
a) the incidence of speed-related accidents on Ontario highways?
b) any correlation between reduced speed limits and reduction in accident
rates, once an adjustment period has elapsed? This would be of
interest based on any heavy-use highway system in the world.
One reason I ask this is because I am lead to believe that the 50 km
stretch of the 401 running across the greater Toronto area is considered
the most dangerous stretch of highway in Ontario, based on traffic
accidents. The figures I heard were 6,000+ accidents in 1988, 300+
injuries, and 15+ deaths; I repeat, however, that this is hearsay only.
The same hearsay reports that the police attribute the whole lot to drivers
moving too fast for the conditions at all times, but did not state that
this meant driving faster than the posted limits.
I guess we'd all be interested in some facts. I already know my opinion,
but don't see that it has anything to add to this thread.
Robert_S
--
Robert Stanley - Cognos Incorporated: 3755 Riverside Drive, P.O. Box 9707,
Compuserve: 76174,3024 Ottawa, Ontario K1G 3Z4, CANADA
uucp: uunet!mitel!sce!cognos!roberts Voice: (613)738-1338 x6115
arpa/internet: roberts%cognos.uucp@uunet.uu.net FAX: (613)738-0002pt@geovision.uucp (Paul Tomblin) (05/20/89)
In article <6147@sunray.UUCP> roberts@cognos.UUCP (Robert Stanley) writes: >We have had an amazing amount of speculation on the subject of driving, >particularly driving faster than the posted speed limit, over the last >few weeks. Clearly it is a divisive issue, and it would appear that >many of us are misinformed and ignorant, at least with respect to some >of the issues that have been raised. I'm posting what I consider my laws of safe and responsible driving. Like Asimov's laws of Robotics, each law is only applied if it doesn't conflict with previous ones. 1) Minimize deaths and injuries in the whole system. This means driving to avoid accidents to yourself, but more importantly, don't _cause_ accidents to others. This also covers cases where you can save several pedestrians by plowing into some jerk speeding out of control (I was a pedestrian in this situation once. I was very grateful!) 2) Minimize delay to the whole system. This means don't cut somebody off to save yourself 5 minutes if it's going to delay 10 people by a minute. Following this rule will keep traffic flowing freely for everybody. 3) Minimize total acceleration (scalar sum, not vector sum) in the system. This means that don't pull out to pass somebody if it means slowing down somebody bombing along in the passing lane, even if you think they're being an idiot. Following this rule will keep the total fuel consumption down, as well as contributing to free flow. These "laws" are based on my education as a Civil Engineer, and 5 years experience working in highway design for MTC, as well as (IMHO) being a courteous driver concerned about the environment. The thing that annoys me the most is people who won't wait in a line up, but rather scoot along the shoulder or exit lane, then try to merge back in to traffic. I once had a chance to chew out one of these idiots when they got stopped next to me. Do you believe they honestly believed that they weren't harming anybody or slowing the rest of us down! -- Paul Tomblin, First Officer, Golgafrinchan B Ark | ADA was invented UUCP: nrcaer!cognos!geovision!pt ?? | because Vogon Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here aren't | Poetry wasn't necessarily even mine! | deadly enough.
clewis@ecicrl.UUCP (Chris Lewis) (05/21/89)
In article <6147@sunray.UUCP> roberts@cognos.UUCP (Robert Stanley) writes: > b) any correlation between reduced speed limits and reduction in accident > rates, once an adjustment period has elapsed? This would be of > interest based on any heavy-use highway system in the world. There does seem to be some correlation, but whenever anybody quotes any of these statistics they're usually jumped on because of other factors. (fuel shortages, different vehicles, road conditions, seat belt laws etc.) >One reason I ask this is because I am lead to believe that the 50 km >stretch of the 401 running across the greater Toronto area is considered >the most dangerous stretch of highway in Ontario, based on traffic >accidents. The figures I heard were 6,000+ accidents in 1988, 300+ >injuries, and 15+ deaths; I repeat, however, that this is hearsay only. These figures are probably correct. HOWEVER, there are (or were) stretches of 80Km/hr highways that are considerably worse. About 5 years ago, the two worst spots in Ontario were the stretch of hwy 115 just south of the hwy 35 junction, and hwy 11 around Severn Bridge. Both two-lane at their worst parts. The former had 15 deaths one year (I saw approx 4 red blankets on separate trips past the Dutch Oven (?) restaurant - one of the accidents killed every member of the family that owned the restaurant), and the other had 13 the following year (I was almost one of them). Compare traffic volumes - the per-vehicle incidents on hwy 115 and 11 were considerably higher than the 401. As a result, major changes have been and are being made to both 11 and 115. (Mostly related to off highway access to retail strips). What does this prove? Not much - these highways had very different problems from the 401. Obviously, MTC doesn't consider the statistics for the 401 to be out-of-line considering the traffic volume, otherwise they'd be making at least some noise about making some changes to it. (There are a number that could be done - half the difficulty is that the collector lanes keep swerving and adding and subtracting lanes almost randomly - to stay on the collectors you usually have to make quite a few lane changes. For the less skilled driver, they'll tend to stay left because they won't have to change lanes so often. Strict avoidance of "right lane must exit" arrangements might make things safer) -- Chris Lewis, Markham, Ontario, Canada {uunet!attcan,utgpu,yunexus,utzoo}!lsuc!ecicrl!clewis Ferret Mailing list: ...!lsuc!gate!eci386!ferret-request (or lsuc!gate!eci386!clewis or lsuc!clewis)