evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) (10/29/89)
I recently found out that the two Loblaws-owned stores in Brampton are
about to be closed down.
The Loblaws at Hwy 10 and Vodden Avenue I could understand, since a
local A&P and Food City opened, its volume has dropped. I thought the
last nail in its coffin came when Brampton's other Loblaws converted
into a SuperCentre, which sold food cheaper than Loblaws but also had a
1-hour film department, clothes, housewares, hardware, etc.
Now I find out that all of the SuperCentres are losing money, and that
the Brampton one probably won't make it to February.
Are Bramptonian shopping habits a bit different? Or is Loblaws having a
tough time through the province? I imagined that things like the 'Green'
products promotion had been quite successful.
BTW, both stores will become 'Fortinos' supermarkets after Loblaws
relinquishes them. How will they be able to make a buck when the
Weston-backed Loblaws chain can't?
--
Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!attcan!telly!evan
If you're smart enough to be a programmer, you're too smart to be a programmeredhew@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew) (10/29/89)
In article <1989Oct28.204533.16975@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes: >I recently found out that the two Loblaws-owned stores in Brampton are >about to be closed down. > >Now I find out that all of the SuperCentres are losing money, and that >the Brampton one probably won't make it to February. > >Are Bramptonian shopping habits a bit different? Or is Loblaws having a >tough time through the province? I imagined that things like the 'Green' >products promotion had been quite successful. In Kitchener, the major national chains never were able to make any inroads on the local "giants". The two main chains in KW are Zehrs and DutchBoy. Their competition is Knectels (Village Markets), plus some independents. After Zehrs and Dutchboy prevented Lablaws from coming in and chased Dominion out of town, they sold out to them. So, the old addage still holds: "If you can't beat them, buy them". Of interest: SuperCentre here lasted about 1/2 a year. It's a Zehrs now. A&P's current incarnation (SuperFresh) has just changed marketing strategy again. I wonder how long they're going to last this time. [Note: I really don't know the insides of the grocery industry, I simply have to keep buying groceries.] > Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario > evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!attcan!telly!evan Ed. A. Hew Authorized Technical Trainer Xeni/Con Corporation work: edhew@xenicon.uucp -or- ..!{uunet!}utai!lsuc!xenicon!edhew ->home: edhew@xenitec.on.ca -or- ..!{uunet!}watmath!xenitec!edhew # This posting has absolutely nothing to do with what I do for a living.
afscian@violet.waterloo.edu (Anthony Scian) (10/30/89)
In article <1989Oct29.050306.1134@xenitec.on.ca> edhew@xenitec.UUCP (Ed Hew) writes: >In Kitchener, the major national chains never were able to make any >inroads on the local "giants". The two main chains in KW are Zehrs >and DutchBoy. Their competition is Knectels (Village Markets), plus >some independents. After Zehrs and Dutchboy prevented Lablaws from >coming in and chased Dominion out of town, they sold out to them. > >So, the old addage still holds: "If you can't beat them, buy them". > >Of interest: SuperCentre here lasted about 1/2 a year. It's a Zehrs now. >A&P's current incarnation (SuperFresh) has just changed marketing strategy >again. I wonder how long they're going to last this time. They get my business. Their overall low prices and 24 hour operation were the main selling points. The "new" strategy means less missed sales for me and a CIBC instant teller inside seals the issue. Anthony //// Anthony Scian afscian@violet.uwaterloo.ca afscian@violet.waterloo.edu //// "I can't believe the news today, I can't close my eyes and make it go away" -U2
drago@bnr-rsc.UUCP (Drago Goricanec) (10/31/89)
In article <1989Oct29.050306.1134@xenitec.on.ca> edhew@xenitec.UUCP (Ed Hew) writes: >In Kitchener, the major national chains never were able to make any >inroads on the local "giants". The two main chains in KW are Zehrs >and DutchBoy. I thought that Zehrs was affiliated with Loblaws, if not owned by them. I believe the same is true of Mr. Grocer. -- "All animals are equal, |#include <disclaimer>| Drago Goricanec But some animals are more | | Bell-Northern Research Ltd. equal than others." |UUCP: | Ottawa, Ontario - Animal Farm |bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!drago| (613) 763-8957
woods@eci386.uucp (Greg A. Woods) (10/31/89)
In article <1989Oct28.204533.16975@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes: > Now I find out that all of the SuperCentres are losing money, and that > the Brampton one probably won't make it to February. The grocery business works (primarily) on a 2% profit margin. That means there's no room for mistakes, even in a 90 BILLION dollar company like Loblaws. The SuperCentres are VERY expensive to run, with their current level of service. -- Greg A. Woods woods@{eci386,gate,robohack,ontmoh,tmsoft,gpu.utcs.UToronto.CA,utorgpu.BITNET} +1-416-443-1734 [h] +1-416-595-5425 [w] VE3-TCP Toronto, Ontario CANADA
eclam@maytag.waterloo.edu (Edmund C. Lam) (10/31/89)
I was under the impression that Zehrs run by the same bunch as Loblaws.
--
-Edmund C. Lam (University of Waterloo)
<eclam@maytag.waterloo.edu || eclam@maytag.Uwaterloo.CA>djohnson@watserv1.waterloo.edu ( DOUG JOHNSON - GEOGRAPHY ) (10/31/89)
In article <1989Oct29.050306.1134@xenitec.on.ca> edhew@xenitec.UUCP (Ed Hew) writes: >In Kitchener, the major national chains never were able to make any >inroads on the local "giants". The two main chains in KW are Zehrs >and DutchBoy. Their competition is Knectels (Village Markets), plus >some independents. After Zehrs and Dutchboy prevented Lablaws from >coming in and chased Dominion out of town, they sold out to them. > >Of interest: SuperCentre here lasted about 1/2 a year. It's a Zehrs now. >A&P's current incarnation (SuperFresh) has just changed marketing strategy >again. I wonder how long they're going to last this time. (Local note: ever wonder why the 'new' Zehrs looks like the SuperCentre?) Ever wonder why hrs, SuperCentre, Mr. Grocer, and Loblaws all carry Preside's Choice products? Are there any Dominions left? If so add them to the list (Mr. Grocer were intitiated as Dominion stores with the union removed (Local Note: spot the high proportion of student cashiers at MG?)). THEY ARE ALL OWNED BY THE SAME COMPANY! (I believe its Westons, now). Ed Hew is correct, KW is a unique market. The local paper's (KW Record) food critic (Jim Rhoman - sp?) is great. He covers corporate concentration in the food industry (among other topics). A facinating topic. Unfortunately, I couldn't keep up with his revelations! :-(. DJ
woods@eci386.uucp (Greg A. Woods) (11/01/89)
In article <1324@bnr-rsc.UUCP> drago@bnr-rsc.UUCP (Drago Goricanec) writes: > I thought that Zehrs was affiliated with Loblaws, if not owned by them. > I believe the same is true of Mr. Grocer. Right on both counts, though I'm not sure of the actual hierarchy any more. It's too complicated to describe here anyway! You might be surprised at how many corner stores in Canada are also supplied by the Loblaws affiliates. You might also have noticed President's Choice(tm) advertisements for Bells supermarkets in the U.S.A. For the most recent year I know about, Bells represented ~$230 million in sales for Loblaws. I find the Loblaws Annual Report to be very enlightening reading, though that often holds true for any large company! -- Greg A. Woods woods@{eci386,gate,robohack,ontmoh,tmsoft,gpu.utcs.UToronto.CA,utorgpu.BITNET} +1-416-443-1734 [h] +1-416-595-5425 [w] VE3-TCP Toronto, Ontario CANADA
edhew@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew) (11/02/89)
In article <17642@watdragon.waterloo.edu> afscian@violet.waterloo.edu (Anthony Scian) writes: >In article <1989Oct29.050306.1134@xenitec.on.ca> edhew@xenitec.UUCP (Ed Hew) writes: >> >>Of interest: SuperCentre here lasted about 1/2 a year. It's a Zehrs now. >>A&P's current incarnation (SuperFresh) has just changed marketing strategy >>again. I wonder how long they're going to last this time. > >They get my business. Their overall low prices and 24 hour operation >were the main selling points. The "new" strategy means less missed >sales for me and a CIBC instant teller inside seals the issue. I used to patronize Miracle Mart for the same reason a few years back. Do you see any Miracle Mart stores still in operation in Kitchener? The problem is that strategies which are consumer-oriented and consumer- advantageous don't seem to keep grocery stores in business in KW. I wonder if this is true elsewhere. >Anthony >//// Anthony Scian afscian@violet.uwaterloo.ca afscian@violet.waterloo.edu //// Ed. A. Hew work: edhew@xenicon.uucp -or- ..!{uunet!}utai!lsuc!xenicon!edhew ->home: edhew@xenitec.on.ca -or- ..!{uunet!}watmath!xenitec!edhew
edhew@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew) (11/02/89)
In article <1324@bnr-rsc.UUCP> drago@bnr-rsc.UUCP (Drago Goricanec) writes: >In article <1989Oct29.050306.1134@xenitec.on.ca> edhew@xenitec.UUCP (Ed Hew) writes: >>In Kitchener, the major national chains never were able to make any >>inroads on the local "giants". The two main chains in KW are Zehrs >>and DutchBoy. > >I thought that Zehrs was affiliated with Loblaws, if not owned by them. >I believe the same is true of Mr. Grocer. Like I said in my previous (orginal) posting on this topic, they _are_ now owned by the same group as Loblaws. They couldn't fight them, so they bought them. I recall that they paid a very attractive price for the Zehrs chain, but they received a guaranteed successful (major) market niche. My recollection is that this would have transacted in 1981, as I was working on a contract (through my then employer) with Zehrs at the time (they used to contract to locals), and with the takeover, the contract evaporated as Loblaws only uses large national companies. They like taking local money, but seem to resist paying anything to locals if they can avoid it. Yes, the memory returns now..... > bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!drago| (613) 763-8957 Ed. A. Hew Authorized Technical Trainer Xeni/Con Corporation work: edhew@xenicon.uucp -or- ..!{uunet!}utai!lsuc!xenicon!edhew ->home: edhew@xenitec.on.ca -or- ..!{uunet!}watmath!xenitec!edhew # This posting has absolutely nothing to do with what I do for a living.
rwh@me.utoronto.ca (Russell Herman) (11/06/89)
In article <1989Oct30.172945.18436@eci386.uucp> woods@eci386.UUCP (Greg A. Woods) writes: > >The grocery business works (primarily) on a 2% profit margin. That I've heard this number bandied about, and frankly, I find it heard to believe. I can go to St. Lawrence Market and get better and cheaper meat and vegetables, and then to my neighborhood "superpharmacy" for cleaning supplies and package goods for less than chain grocery outlets. Does this 2% include just the retailing profit, or does it include the vertically-integrated portions like dairying as well? 2% of gross revenues, or assets (including farmland)? Anyone know the details of the food-processing business and the relevant GAAP? Is this an accounting trick or another urban legend? Russ Herman INTERNET: rwh@me.utoronto.ca UUCP: ..uunet!utai!me!rwh
woods@eci386.uucp (Greg A. Woods) (11/06/89)
In article <89Nov5.163837est.18444@me.utoronto.ca> rwh@me.utoronto.ca (Russell Herman) writes: > In article <1989Oct30.172945.18436@eci386.uucp> woods@eci386.UUCP (Greg A. Woods) writes: > > > >The grocery business works (primarily) on a 2% profit margin. That > > Does this 2% include just the retailing profit, or does it include the > vertically-integrated portions like dairying as well? 2% of gross revenues, > or assets (including farmland)? Anyone know the details of the food-processing > business and the relevant GAAP? Is this an accounting trick or another > urban legend? The 2% is the retail profit, i.e. what Loblaws makes on their gross revenues. Remember that most other retailers work with 20% to 40%, and sometimes 60%. Note also that this 2% includes the so called "lost leader" products such as milk, butter, eggs, and Coke! -- Greg A. Woods woods@{eci386,gate,robohack,ontmoh,tmsoft,gpu.utcs.UToronto.CA,utorgpu.BITNET} +1-416-443-1734 [h] +1-416-595-5425 [w] VE3-TCP Toronto, Ontario CANADA
mike@mks.com (Mike Brookbank) (11/15/89)
In article <1989Nov2.051633.20318@xenitec.on.ca> edhew@xenitec.UUCP (Ed Hew) writes: >>>In Kitchener, the major national chains never were able to make any >>>inroads on the local "giants". The two main chains in KW are Zehrs >>>and DutchBoy. >>I thought that Zehrs was affiliated with Loblaws, if not owned by them. >>I believe the same is true of Mr. Grocer. > Zehrs here in Kitchener/Waterloo used to be one of the largest independant Canadian grocers. They had tremendously loyal patrons who remained loyal even after the marketing assault waged by some of the major national chains. Loblaws simply didn't work here. So Loblaws took the other logical approach: they bought Zehrs, kept the name and, of course the customers, and proceeded to introduce the Loblaws marketing strategy. This has been George Weston's strategy from the beginning. If he can't introduce his national (or international) chain in a local area, he buys out the leading market share grocer and converts the store from the inside out. This strategy has been so successful that the Weston empire is by far the largest international food distributor. Have a look at the Weston holding group's annual report sometime. It almost makes Power Corp.'s holdings look diminuative. -- || // // ,'/~~\' Mike Brookbank uunet!watmath!mks!mike /||/// //|' `\\\ Mortice Kern Systems Inc. (519) 884-2251 / | //_// ||\___/ 35 King St. N., Waterloo, Ont., Can. N2J 2W9 O_/ "To you, I'm an athiest. To God, I'm the loyal opposition."