gbs@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Gideon Sheps) (11/17/89)
References: <606@alias.UUCP> <12258@watcgl.waterloo.edu> <7470@cognos.UUCP> <209@isgtec.UUCP> Sender: Reply-To: gbs@gpu.utcs.UUCP (Gideon Sheps) Followup-To: Distribution: can Organization: University of Toronto Computing Services Keywords: In article <209@isgtec.UUCP> robert@isgtec.UUCP (Robert Osborne) writes: > >I don't think there are many teachers in the 50K range (does anybody >know the pay scales for teachers, college instructors, and university >professors?) Since a lot of community college instructors come from >industry I wouldn't be surprised if it takes money to get them. In the high school systems of Ontario & Quebec circa $50,000 is the top salary range. What does it take ? In Quebec, you need about 15 years experience and a Master's degree (well, actually, you can get a couple more bucks for a PhD, but not much) In Ontario, I believe about the same experience, and a B.A. and some form of 'specialization' e.g. Guidance Councellor (training, not necessairily practiced). The Ontario Pay scale is about 4 or 5% above Quebec's at the moment. >Any incompetent teachers should be FIRED, period. It's too important Touchy area.. who defines incompetant ? There is as much infighting and 'office politics' in the teaching profession as in any other - indeed, more than in many. I've heard enough stories from my mother (Quebec H.S. teacher) about school board politics to know just how easily a teaching system without tenure could be abused by an administration, and/or a few powerful teachers. Supposedly that's what the pre-tenure period is for. Many of the problems emerge not at the begining, but with teachers who do not keep up with their field - or with the changes in pedagogy, or who 'wear out' and don't know when to quit. Then again - is it at all fair to force people to quit, based on .. based on what.. we're back to the question of who does the defining. >Robert A. Osborne | I take full responsibility for the opin... >...uunet!mnetor!lsuc!isgtec!robert | <HEY BUD, get off the box, it's my turn!> -- Gideon Sheps I am not a number ... ...I am a free variable ! /// UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,pyramid}!utzoo!utgpu!gbs \\\/// BITNET: gbs@utorgpu INTERNET: gbs@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca \\\/
gbs@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Gideon Sheps) (11/17/89)
In article <18224@watdragon.waterloo.edu> mdhutton@violet.waterloo.edu (Mike Hutton) writes: >In article <1989Nov14.232239.5289@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> gbs@gpu.utcs.UUCP (Gideon Sheps) writes: >>In article <18113@watdragon.waterloo.edu> mdhutton@violet.waterloo.edu (Mike Hutton) writes: >>>I'm not so sure about the collage strike, partly because I am ignorant of >>>most of the details. I can't really understand why college teachers would >>>make less than high-school teachers. If so, why is there not a shortage >>>of college teachers? (ie. they *should* obviously be well qualified to teach >>>high-school??). Is there a college teacher to answer this question? >> >>Have you perhaps applied for a job as a high school teacher recently ? >>If so.. where was it - many people are currently looking for *the* >>opening in Ontario. >> >>Ok.. I exagerate slightly... but only slightly. > >What are you getting at, I only see two implications of the statement >1. Some College teachers are high-school teachers who couldn't get a job? >2. College teachers wishing to teach high-school are not as qualified > as people graduating from teacher's college, and can't compete for jobs. > Noooo.. you misunderstand me... The assertion I was responding to says (as I read it) that if other teachers (H.S. & Public school) are doing so much better - why arn't all the college teachers changing jobs. My reponse simply says.. even if they wanted to, there are no jobs for the taking. ..except - as he pointed out in a follow up - in certain areas (Math, Comp Sci and French) where there is in fact great demand. (This was the part I was covering with my admission that I do somewhat exagerate) -- Gideon Sheps I am not a number ... ...I am a free variable ! /// UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,pyramid}!utzoo!utgpu!gbs \\\/// BITNET: gbs@utorgpu INTERNET: gbs@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca \\\/
dre@myrias.com (Duane Eitzen) (12/04/89)
In article <1989Dec2.174136.8014@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> chandru@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Chandru Krishnan) writes: > > I have my own axe to grind with teachers. When Paki-bashing was at its >height in those nightmarish years of 1974-78 (and even in a toned down way >after that) teachers said and did virtually nothing,except mouth a few >platitudes and indifferently at that. . . . > Those were awfully rough times for someone between the age of 10-14,who >had to take the crude racist garbage from the student population and racism >of a more sophisticated kind from people who are supposed to know better! > Along similar lines, I had a teacher (from somewhere in south asia) who publicly refered to his students as "white trash". We sure are an awful species, eh? dre.
elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) (12/05/89)
In article <1989Dec2.174136.8014@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> chandru@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Chandru Krishnan) writes: > I have my own axe to grind with teachers. When Paki-bashing was at its >height in those nightmarish years of 1974-78 (and even in a toned down way >after that) teachers said and did virtually nothing,except mouth a few >platitudes and indifferently at that. Please spare me (and us). People in the marjority hardly need something so obvious as skin colour to oppress. Any immigrant that I know of has horror stories to tell (me included, and I'm technically not an immigrant). For me, it caused me severe distress, until I learned to use my fists (hardly a good solution) and my head (ah, a better solution). -- Eugene Fiume Dynamic Graphics Project University of Toronto elf@dgp.toronto.edu