Pleasant@Rutgers.ARPA (04/11/83)
HUMAN-NETS Digest Monday, 11 Apr 1983 Volume 6 : Issue 23
Today's Topics:
Computers and People - Facilities for Software Developers,
Technology - Automatic Mail Sorters & EFT (7 msgs),
Computers and the Law - Electronicx Anklets (2 msgs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 29 March 1983 14:34 cst
From: Heiby at HI-MULTICS (Ronald W.)
Subject: Facilities for SW Developers
I am currently in a fight for what I consider to be a decent
working environment for software developers. This is being
prompted by my management moving me from an area where I share
my cubicle with one person to an area where I will be sharing
(a larger cubicle) with two or three other people. We are all
degreed software engineers with (mostly) 2-6 years of
experience.
I'd like very much to know in what kind of environment software
development gets accomplished in your facility. Specifically,
how many people per cubicle (or office), what size cubicle, how
many people share a terminal or desktop computer workstation.
Other concerns include noise suppression techniques, lighting,
plants (green, growing), ventilation, etc.
In addition to this information, anything on productivity
differences based on type of environment would be great
ammunition for me.
Please reply directly to me (Heiby @ HI-Multics) and I'll
summarize to the net.
Thanks much. Ron H.
------------------------------
Date: 8 April 1983 02:32 EST
From: Steven A. Swernofsky <SASW @ MIT-MC>
Subject: [FJW: [Tim.UPenn: automatic mail sorters]]
This should be of interest to this mailing list: -- Steve
Date: 29 Jan 1983 21:57-EST
From: Tim Finin <Tim.UPenn at UDel-Relay>
To: msg-group, header-people
Re: automatic mail sorters
I'm working on a project involving user-constructed mail "filters".
What we would like to build is a rule-driven expert system which
will ORDER one's electronic mail on the basis of the message
attributes. We don't want to actually filter out unimportant
messages, just rank the current (or incoming) ones.
The kinds of attributes we are imagining using are things like:
- has the message been read?, header seen?, answered?
- age of message
- sender's identity (e.g. RPG@SAIL), address (BBNA), local vs.
network
- keywords in subject field and message body
- apparent "type" of message body (e.g. pascal code, lisp code,
- manner we became a recipient (e.g. only addressee, one of
several addressees, as a member of a mailing list, a carbon
copy, forwarded...)
- size of message
- etc.
We expect to rank messages with along several dimensions, such as
INTEREST, URGENT and IMPORTANCE, and then have rules which combine
these rankings to produce an overall ordering of the messages.
A crucial aspect to this project would be to provide an environment
in which it would be easy for the USER to examine, understand,
specify and modify the rules which drive the system. We are aiming
for a class of users which includes those technically oriented but
having no programming knowledge of experience. We might, for
example, allow rules like:
if the sender is TIM.UPENN@UDEL ; this fellow sends very
then INTEREST is VERY LIKELY to be HIGH ; interesting messages.
if the RECIPIENT is a MAILING LIST ; if the mail is not personal
then URGENCY is LIKELY to be LOW ; then it's prob. not urgent.
if the source is LOCAL ; local (non network) mail has
then the IMPORTANCE MAY be HIGH ; many important messages.
if the SIZE is > 200 LINES or
the TYPE is PASCAL ; very big messages and
then the URGENCY MAY be LOW ; programs aren't urgent.
if the URGENCY is > MEDIUM and
the IMPORTANCE is NOT LOW ; rank from other
then the RANK is VERY HIGH ; measures
I know that there has bee a fair amount of work in the area of
automatic mail filters, routers and the like. I'm interested in
getting pointers to people, projects and relevant publications. I'd
also like to talk to people who have to deal with a large number of
incoming messages (e.g. > 20). I would like to know how they manage
the task of reading their mail (old and new) already and what
features they would like to see in an mail-sorting expert system.
I would greatly appreciate any information, advice or ideas you
could give me.
Thanks,
Tim Finin
------------------------------
Date: 8 April 1983 19:15 EST
From: Robert Elton Maas <REM @ MIT-MC>
Subject: EFT and such
No, I don't think acts of vandalism are right (cheese in ATM card
slot). Better to carry around a number of stick-on OUT OF ORDER
labels, and whenever you find a malfunctioning machine you stick on
one of these stickers and write a short explanation on it of how it
is broken (vending machine doesn't return change, vending machine
door is stuck, ATM is out of cash on too many occasions, ATM light
is out so you can't see the labels on the buttons you're supposed to
press, etc.). If those stickers are hard to remove, the bank or
vending-machine company will get the message that customers are
dissatisfied but still want the service offered if only it could be
improved.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 83 14:59:16 EST (Fri)
From: Fred Blonder <fred.umcp-cs@UDel-Relay>
Subject: Re: EFT, etc.
From: Lauren Weinstein <vortex!lauren@LBL-CSAM.ARPA>
. . . I also suspect that, by convention and eventual edict,
cash will become less and less acceptable as time goes by.
I've already run across a clerk in a major department store who
honestly didn't know how to handle a CASH sale. She had to call in
the manager to handle the transaction.
------------------------------
Date: 8 April 1983 23:30 EST
From: Steven A. Swernofsky <SASW @ MIT-MC>
Subject: magnetic bank cards
Robert,
Doesn't this bring us full circle? If all your credit ("money") is
recorded on a bank card, the card can still be stolen and many of
the anticrime advantages you mentioned are out the window. On the
other hand, EFT is far more convenient than paper (your remarks are
right on the money there), so this is not a real complaint.
Let me propose my own engineering solution to the EFT/privacy
problem: PERSONAL SCRIP. Digital signatures can be used to create
unforgeable messages which say something like "SASW owes the bearer
$xxx.xx". Each person could carry a "smart card" which sends and
receives this kind of message (with appropriate card-to-card
protocol). You can bring your card to the bank, which will then
debit the accounts of people who have given you their IOUs,
crediting your account or giving you a bank IOU.
There is already a legal doctrine to handle this: negotiable
promissory notes. Taking one of these is no more risky than taking
a personal check or credit card. Notes of the form "xxx BANK owes
the bearer ..." or even "xxx FEDERAL RESERVE BANK owes the bearer"
(look at old dollar bills) are the equivalent of cash. If you don't
want a check you can take (electronic) cash. Notes can even be
post-dated for credit.
Your card can still be stolen, since it is now an "electronic
wallet." It is also an electronic checkbook. When paying bills you
may elect to record an audit trail or not, as you choose. But note
that you could literally wire money to people. That allows you to
pay your bills by phone, in "cash" if necessary. In addition to the
convenience of EFT, you might be able to invent creative new forms
of money (such as checks which must be cosigned) for your
convenience and protection.
I know how to make messages unforgeable using digital signatures (if
Rivest-Shimon-Adelman really works) but I'm not sure about making
them induplicable. Any comments?
-- Steve
------------------------------
Date: 9 Apr 83 0:42:54-EST (Sat)
From: the soapbox of Gene Spafford <spaf.gatech@UDel-Relay>
Subject: Re: EFT and such
When people resort to acts like putting cheese in ATMs it is
generally not for such simple reasons as lights being out or
temporarily out of cash. Generally, it is an act against the
philosophy of the machine or actions of the bank. One of the local
banks, First Atlanta, has a policy at the local branch of not giving
customers their account balance unless they stand in line and see
one of the two overworked people ata a desk. That is, the tellers
refuse to check the balance. Instead, they send people to the ATM
machines to get their balance. However, such a transaction costs
25 cents and the link to the main computer is often down resulting
in a charge but no balance. Enough run-ins like this and you begin
to get rather upset with the bank. Some types like to over-react.
Me, I just switch banks where they treat me a little nicer. Just
because I'm a student doesn't mean I don't rate some respect.
However, I had a friend who decided to try something like the cheese
because of a continuing problem with "bounced" checks -- the bank
doesn't credit deposits made at ATMs in the same way as at the bank.
Grrrr...
------------------------------
Date: 9 Apr 1983 16:54 EST (Sat)
From: Paul Fuqua <PF@MIT-XX>
Subject: More EFT Questions
I have read somewhere of the existence of "debit" cards, which,
as opposed to "credit" cards, do not extend loans to be billed, but
rather deduct money from a {checking, saving, special} account.
Sounds awfully EFTish to me. Anyway, since I'm not up on these
things (the only cards I have are teller cards to the credit union
back home and a bank here), I would like to know (1) are these debit
cards in use? (2) are they common? (3) is their per-transaction
cost the same as that of credit cards? (4) is their use growing?
Regarding receipts: the reason one has to pick up the silly
things after each ATM transaction is that the
lawmakers/banks/customers are overly concerned with the reliability
of the transaction-recording mechanisms in the ATMs. Paper is still
considered more permanent than electronic storage, so if one has
paper, it is remembered forever. By the way, my credit union
doesn't send me canceled checks, because the checkbook includes a
carbonless copy with each check. Less paperwork, in a way, but they
still microfilm all the checks, just in case. The bank here,
however, does send them. Any knowledge of the trends there?
pf
------------------------------
Date: Sat Apr 9 19:37:43 1983
From: decvax!watmath!bstempleton@Berkeley
Subject: EFT and privacy
You fear people who want to hide what they're doing more than those
who don't? That may be true for criminals, but there are real
reasons for privacy. Some people just plain like it, for one thing.
The main thing to consider, though, is that while you may not feel
that what you are doing (be it purchasing mouthwash or contributing
to a political party) there may be others who do think it is and
might act against you if they had a list of your transactions. Can
you imagine if the Moral Majority could get a list of what you
bought and decided to move against you because you bought a Pay-TV
channel that included some program they didn't like???
Brad
------------------------------
***Error on net connection***
{Pleasant@Rutgers.ARPA (04/11/83)
HUMAN-NETS Digest Monday, 11 Apr 1983 Volume 6 : Issue 23
Today's Topics:
Computers and People - Facilities for Software Developers,
Technology - Automatic Mail Sorters & EFT (7 msgs),
Computers and the Law - Electronicx Anklets (2 msgs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 29 March 1983 14:34 cst
From: Heiby at HI-MULTICS (Ronald W.)
Subject: Facilities for SW Developers
I am currently in a fight for what I consider to be a decent
working environment for software developers. This is being
prompted by my management moving me from an area where I share
my cubicle with one person to an area where I will be sharing
(a larger cubicle) with two or three other people. We are all
degreed software engineers with (mostly) 2-6 years of
experience.
I'd like very much to know in what kind of environment software
development gets accomplished in your facility. Specifically,
how many people per cubicle (or office), what size cubicle, how
many people share a terminal or desktop computer workstation.
Other concerns include noise suppression techniques, lighting,
plants (green, growing), ventilation, etc.
In addition to this information, anything on productivity
differences based on type of environment would be great
ammunition for me.
Please reply directly to me (Heiby @ HI-Multics) and I'll
summarize to the net.
Thanks much. Ron H.
------------------------------
Date: 8 April 1983 02:32 EST
From: Steven A. Swernofsky <SASW @ MIT-MC>
Subject: [FJW: [Tim.UPenn: automatic mail sorters]]
This should be of interest to this mailing list: -- Steve
Date: 29 Jan 1983 21:57-EST
From: Tim Finin <Tim.UPenn at UDel-Relay>
To: msg-group, header-people
Re: automatic mail sorters
I'm working on a project involving user-constructed mail "filters".
What we would like to build is a rule-driven expert system which
will ORDER one's electronic mail on the basis of the message
attributes. We don't want to actually filter out unimportant
messages, just rank the current (or incoming) ones.
The kinds of attributes we are imagining using are things like:
- has the message been read?, header seen?, answered?
- age of message
- sender's identity (e.g. RPG@SAIL), address (BBNA), local vs.
network
- keywords in subject field and message body
- apparent "type" of message body (e.g. pascal code, lisp code,
- manner we became a recipient (e.g. only addressee, one of
several addressees, as a member of a mailing list, a carbon
copy, forwarded...)
- size of message
- etc.
We expect to rank messages with along several dimensions, such as
INTEREST, URGENT and IMPORTANCE, and then have rules which combine
these rankings to produce an overall ordering of the messages.
A crucial aspect to this project would be to provide an environment
in which it would be easy for the USER to examine, understand,
specify and modify the rules which drive the system. We are aiming
for a class of users which includes those technically oriented but
having no programming knowledge of experience. We might, for
example, allow rules like:
if the sender is TIM.UPENN@UDEL ; this fellow sends very
then INTEREST is VERY LIKELY to be HIGH ; interesting messages.
if the RECIPIENT is a MAILING LIST ; if the mail is not personal
then URGENCY is LIKELY to be LOW ; then it's prob. not urgent.
if the source is LOCAL ; local (non network) mail has
then the IMPORTANCE MAY be HIGH ; many important messages.
if the SIZE is > 200 LINES or
the TYPE is PASCAL ; very big messages and
then the URGENCY MAY be LOW ; programs aren't urgent.
if the URGENCY is > MEDIUM and
the IMPORTANCE is NOT LOW ; rank from other
then the RANK is VERY HIGH ; measures
I know that there has bee a fair amount of work in the area of
automatic mail filters, routers and the like. I'm interested in
getting pointers to people, projects and relevant publications. I'd
also like to talk to people who have to deal with a large number of
incoming messages (e.g. > 20). I would like to know how they manage
the task of reading their mail (old and new) already and what
features they would like to see in an mail-sorting expert system.
I would greatly appreciate any information, advice or ideas you
could give me.
Thanks,
Tim Finin
------------------------------
Date: 8 April 1983 19:15 EST
From: Robert Elton Maas <REM @ MIT-MC>
Subject: EFT and such
No, I don't think acts of vandalism are right (cheese in ATM card
slot). Better to carry around a number of stick-on OUT OF ORDER
labels, and whenever you find a malfunctioning machine you stick on
one of these stickers and write a short explanation on it of how it
is broken (vending machine doesn't return change, vending machine
door is stuck, ATM is out of cash on too many occasions, ATM light
is out so you can't see the labels on the buttons you're supposed to
press, etc.). If those stickers are hard to remove, the bank or
vending-machine company will get the message that customers are
dissatisfied but still want the service offered if only it could be
improved.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 83 14:59:16 EST (Fri)
From: Fred Blonder <fred.umcp-cs@UDel-Relay>
Subject: Re: EFT, etc.
From: Lauren Weinstein <vortex!lauren@LBL-CSAM.ARPA>
. . . I also suspect that, by convention and eventual edict,
cash will become less and less acceptable as time goes by.
I've already run across a clerk in a major department store who
honestly didn't know how to handle a CASH sale. She had to call in
the manager to handle the transaction.
------------------------------
Date: 8 April 1983 23:30 EST
From: Steven A. Swernofsky <SASW @ MIT-MC>
Subject: magnetic bank cards
Robert,
Doesn't this bring us full circle? If all your credit ("money") is
recorded on a bank card, the card can still be stolen and many of
the anticrime advantages you mentioned are out the window. On the
other hand, EFT is far more convenient than paper (your remarks are
right on the money there), so this is not a real complaint.
Let me propose my own engineering solution to the EFT/privacy
problem: PERSONAL SCRIP. Digital signatures can be used to create
unforgeable messages which say something like "SASW owes the bearer
$xxx.xx". Each person could carry a "smart card" which sends and
receives this kind of message (with appropriate card-to-card
protocol). You can bring your card to the bank, which will then
debit the accounts of people who have given you their IOUs,
crediting your account or giving you a bank IOU.
There is already a legal doctrine to handle this: negotiable
promissory notes. Taking one of these is no more risky than taking
a personal check or credit card. Notes of the form "xxx BANK owes
the bearer ..." or even "xxx FEDERAL RESERVE BANK owes the bearer"
(look at old dollar bills) are the equivalent of cash. If you don't
want a check you can take (electronic) cash. Notes can even be
post-dated for credit.
Your card can still be stolen, since it is now an "electronic
wallet." It is also an electronic checkbook. When paying bills you
may elect to record an audit trail or not, as you choose. But note
that you could literally wire money to people. That allows you to
pay your bills by phone, in "cash" if necessary. In addition to the
convenience of EFT, you might be able to invent creative new forms
of money (such as checks which must be cosigned) for your
convenience and protection.
I know how to make messages unforgeable using digital signatures (if
Rivest-Shimon-Adelman really works) but I'm not sure about making
them induplicable. Any comments?
-- Steve
------------------------------
Date: 9 Apr 83 0:42:54-EST (Sat)
From: the soapbox of Gene Spafford <spaf.gatech@UDel-Relay>
Subject: Re: EFT and such
When people resort to acts like putting cheese in ATMs it is
generally not for such simple reasons as lights being out or
temporarily out of cash. Generally, it is an act against the
philosophy of the machine or actions of the bank. One of the local
banks, First Atlanta, has a policy at the local branch of not giving
customers their account balance unless they stand in line and see
one of the two overworked people ata a desk. That is, the tellers
refuse to check the balance. Instead, they send people to the ATM
machines to get their balance. However, such a transaction costs
25 cents and the link to the main computer is often down resulting
in a charge but no balance. Enough run-ins like this and you begin
to get rather upset with the bank. Some types like to over-react.
Me, I just switch banks where they treat me a little nicer. Just
because I'm a student doesn't mean I don't rate some respect.
However, I had a friend who decided to try something like the cheese
because of a continuing problem with "bounced" checks -- the bank
doesn't credit deposits made at ATMs in the same way as at the bank.
Grrrr...
------------------------------
Date: 9 Apr 1983 16:54 EST (Sat)
From: Paul Fuqua <PF@MIT-XX>
Subject: More EFT Questions
I have read somewhere of the existence of "debit" cards, which,
as opposed to "credit" cards, do not extend loans to be billed, but
rather deduct money from a {checking, saving, special} account.
Sounds awfully EFTish to me. Anyway, since I'm not up on these
things (the only cards I have are teller cards to the credit union
back home and a bank here), I would like to know (1) are these debit
cards in use? (2) are they common? (3) is their per-transaction
cost the same as that of credit cards? (4) is their use growing?
Regarding receipts: the reason one has to pick up the silly
things after each ATM transaction is that the
lawmakers/banks/customers are overly concerned with the reliability
of the transaction-recording mechanisms in the ATMs. Paper is still
considered more permanent than electronic storage, so if one has
paper, it is remembered forever. By the way, my credit union
doesn't send me canceled checks, because the checkbook includes a
carbonless copy with each check. Less paperwork, in a way, but they
still microfilm all the checks, just in case. The bank here,
however, does send them. Any knowledge of the trends there?
pf
------------------------------
Date: Sat Apr 9 19:37:43 1983
From: decvax!watmath!bstempleton@Berkeley
Subject: EFT and privacy
You fear people who want to hide what they're doing more than those
who don't? That may be true for criminals, but there are real
reasons for privacy. Some people just plain like it, for one thing.
The main thing to consider, though, is that while you may not feel
that what you are doing (be it purchasing mouthwash or contributing
to a political party) there may be others who do think it is and
might act against you if they had a list of your transactions. Can
you imagine if the Moral Majority could get a list of what you
bought and decided to move against you because you bought a Pay-TV
channel that included some program they didn't like???
Brad
------------------------------
Date: 9 Apr 83 20:17:47-EST (Sat)
From: the soapbox of Gene Spafford <spaf.gatech@UDel-Relay>
Subject: ATM issuing new cards
When I want to order a new card from First Nasty of Atlanta (excuse
me, First National), they require me to show some positive form of
ID and enter my old secret code on the request form. The new card
is generally mailed within a week. The waiting time serves a
purpose, I'm sure, and the requirement of ID and the code seems
pretty secure.
I don't see how the ATM could issue a blank card with just the
magnetic strip encoded. I mean, that might work part of the time,
but the only times I needed a card replaced were times I lost my
card (and thus could not activate the machine to request a card), or
else my card was so badly damaged it either would not go in the
machine, or could not be read. Again, the machine could not be
activated to issue me a new card.
Also, the embossing is useful for me -- it contains my account
number, which I can never remember (I have so many other things to
remember). It also can be used in check verifying machines to
identify me. The embossing can serve other purposes too, I suppose.
------------------------------
Date: 9 Apr 83 20:02:55-EST (Sat)
From: the soapbox of Gene Spafford <spaf.gatech@UDel-Relay>
Subject: Anklets on Women
Actually, I think the idea should be to make the anklets as
conspicuous as possible, even under pants, boots, floor length
gowns, flannel nighties... The purpose of the anklet is as an
alternative to a jail sentence. I may be wrong, and some of the
things currently done in our judicial system make me wonder, but I
thought conviction of a crime entailed some form of punishment which
included some form of public recognition of the conviction. I don't
think we should use something like this on anyone but a convicted
felon, but if we do it should be a collar or other prominent badge
of wrongdoing. Punishment is also supposed to be a deterrent to
potential criminals. Would you be so likely to ignore your traffic
tickets if you knew you might end up wearing a 5 pound ugly green
collar around your neck for a month? Same idea as the "Boston boot"
for you car....
------------------------------
Date: 10 Apr 1983 1128-EST
From: Siggy (Alexander B. Latzko) <LATZKO@RU-GREEN>
Subject: Anklets on women<electronic tracking>
In response to Ms. Gold's letter referring to putting pantyhose on
over an anklet three solutions come to mind:
1> Wear slacks. Perhaps things are different in different parts of
the country; however, standard day wear for most persons of the
female gender in this area includes trousers of one form or
another.
2> Individual stockings which could then be slid between the anklet
and leg are a possibility (yes I realize that negates the ease in
wearing panty hose).
3> Move the transponder. It could be worn as a wristlet or as a
necklace although the idea of it in neck borne form strikes me as a
harkening back to times of slaveholding in connotation.
/S* <Latzko%RU-Green@RUTGERS>
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************