Human-Nets-Request%rutgers@brl-bmd.UUCP (Human-Nets-Request@rutgers) (11/16/83)
HUMAN-NETS Digest Wednesday, 16 Nov 1983 Volume 6 : Issue 72
Today's Topics:
Query - USENET net.general,
Responses to Queries - Ephemeral Publications (3 msgs) &
"Hacker's Challenge/Revenge" game proposed.(3 msgs)&
MCI Mail &
Digest Formats &
Cellular Radiotelephony,
Computers and the Law - File Privacy,
Information - Cameras on street corners
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Date: 12-Nov-83 14:59 PST
From: Kirk Kelley <KIRK.TYM@OFFICE-2>
Subject: USENET net.general
Can someone tell us what the USENET net.general group discussions are
like? How do they differ from Human-Nets? Is it technically feasable
to allow cross communication? Would it be worth while?
-- kirk
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Date: Sun, 13 Nov 83 11:16 EST
From: Henry Dreifus <Dreifus.UPenn@Rand-Relay>
Subject: Re: Archiving all these messages
Why, I'll just put them on my 10 GByte Optical Laser video disk.
Soon, everyone will have them.
Hank
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Date: 10 Nov 83 13:19:46 PST (Thu)
From: Katz.uci-750a@Rand-Relay
Subject: Re: Misinformation
Please don't overestimate AI. It is not possible for any computer
system to guarantee the accuracy of information fed to it. This is
not a limitation of current computer science, but rather a theoretical
result. It may be possible for a future computer system to find that
some of the information fed to it is inconsistent with earlier
information, but in general only a small fraction of inconsistencies
could ever be detected by an automated system.
It would be easier to filter the information going into an
Encyclopeadia Galactica than to filter and correct a library of
original sources, but the data would still have to undergo substantial
selection and filtering to insure correctness. One would also not
want to collect everything because much of the information in
libraries is merely discussion, debate (such as this), and review.
Thus most libraries (and even most Encyclopeadias) are low in
information density.
Because of the need to properly select and compose materials, the
effort to write an electronic Encyclopeadia (with the desired virtues
of timeliness, accuracy, consistency, compactness, multi-leveled
presentation, compactness, etc.) is probably at least comparible to
the effort required to construct and maintain a paper based
Encyclopeadia (like Encyclopeadia Britanica). As far as accuracy is
concerned, remember that one of the fundamental theorems of
Information Theory is "Garbage In -- Garbage Out."
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Date: 13 Nov 1983 09:49:06-PST
From: smith.umn-cs@Rand-Relay
Subject: Ephemeral Publications
Never fear, old copies of Linn's Weekly Stamp News, Topical Time,
Antiques Today, probably even Guns and Ammo don't ALL go in the trash
can. Many of them go to "the nation's attic."
Years ago I spent a summer working part-time at the Smithsonian
Institution. They keep everything. I sorted some of the most obscure
periodicals you can imagine into alphabetical order.
I'm not sure how things are today, but the last time I visited (ten
years ago) the curators still prided themselves on having time to talk
to random people like me. Over the years I talked to several curators
and only ONCE was I given a polite brushoff (even then, another
Smithsonian employee who overheard it was SHOCKED). Unfortunately,
the person involved was associated with their computing collection and
other people have reported similar problems trying to talk to that
person.
Rick.
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Date: 11 November 1983 02:49 EST
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE @ MIT-MC>
Subject: "Hacker's Challenge/Revenge" game proposed.
I think it's a great idea; might be worth a good article? Or do
youy prefer to keep this more or less "secret"? (If anything put
on the net can be said to be...
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Date: 11 November 1983 06:29 EST
From: Robert Elton Maas <REM @ MIT-MC>
Subject: "Hacker's Challenge/Revenge" game proposed.
Games based on TV shows tend to sell like "hotcakes" even if they're
cruddy games. I suggest we get permission to call the game "Whiz
Kids", and model it after the episodes that have appeared to date
(adding a new subgame each week). Any kid who has watched a particular
episode of the show will know how to "break into a computer" as
described in that episode and thus can score points in that particular
subgame. We could even refer to the subgames as "episodes" and allow a
player who has mastered a particular "episode" to store a record of
his score to date so he doesn't have to start over next week when he's
watched a particular episode and we're ready for him with our next
"episode" in the game.
One problem, if it appears we're creating an "attractive nuisance" to
entice teenagers to get into our computers when they normally wouldn't
try, our attempts to prosecute them will fail. Anybody have
suggestions how to bait them into staying on the line without having
the legal case go into "attractive nuisance" mode?
One possible alternative: make playing the "Whiz Kids" game completely
accepted behaviour, but install warnings throughout the game that
anybody trying to get into the rest of the system without
authorization will be prosecuted. That way the intruders will see the
difference between a "guest account" for the "Whiz Kids" game and
"trespassing" for other use of the systems, will get their thrills by
playing the game and not have a need to go further, they'll satisfy
their thrills by playing like breaking in instead of really breaking
in. This is analagous to playing video war-games instead of really
going around with guns shooting at anything that moves.
------------------------------
From: tp3!uno at RAND-UNIX
Date: Thursday, 10 Nov 1983 22:42-PST
Subject: Re: "Hacker's Challenge/Revenge" game proposed.
Comment: If you ever actually did try to implement such a scheme in
real life, it would be far better to hack up a copy of something well
known like "adventure", "trek", "aliens", "rogue"...
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Date: 10 November 1983 23:21-PST (Thursday)
From: Tony Li <Tli @ Usc>
Subject: Re: MCI Mail
Reply-to: Tli @ Usc-Eclb
I think MCI Mail is a bust. Basically, for those of you who are
fortunate enought to have the common sense to keep away from such
drivel, MCI Mail seems to be a simple-minded attempt to try to make
Electronic Mail look ridiculous.
Mainly, the user-interface is garbage. I've freshman computing
students with one month's worth of Pascal who have written better
systems. Anyhow, MCI Mail implements a trivial line oriented editor,
and a few simple commands from a menu to get it's job done. It's
nothing near even the power of MM. Sigh.
It turns out that they are running on Vaxen, and have set up some
wierd stuff to keep you from ever touching the OS. Sigh. Why didn't
they just let me use VMS mail? Crufty as that is, it would have been
better.
Cheers,
Tony ;-)
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Date: Sat, 12 Nov 83 08:58 EST
From: "Robert W. Kerns" <RWK%SCRC-YUKON@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V6 #69
Date: 31 Oct 1983 10:21:45 EST (Monday)
From: Andy Adler <andya@BBN-UNIX>
Subject: Mail Digests
Are there standards in use by interest groups that digest their
messages? I think not. If we could come to some sort of
agreement of the form of these digests, such as how to mark the
individual messages in the digest, then it would be possible to
write filters to process them, for example to put each sub-message
on a separate page or to index a year's worth of messages.
Currently, one must resort to heuristic approaches.
Many years ago, in the dawn of the Age of Digests, Roger
Duffey (the father of the digested list) got together with
some mail-reader hackers and put together a format, which
at least at least HUMAN-NETS and SF-LOVERS follow to this
day. There is a command in BABYL called UnDigestify, which
turns a digest message into its component messages. Perhaps
someone could dig up this format spec, and turn it into an
RFC?
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Date: 10 Nov 83 12:56:15 PST (Thu)
From: Katz.uci-750a@Rand-Relay
Subject: Re: Cellular Radiotelephony
Of course this is what C.R.T. is all about. I believe there was a
review of it in IEEE Spectrum a few months ago. If I remember
correctly, it is in experimental use in Chicago now. The Spectrum
article described several problems with C.R.T. and some ways around
them.
------------------------------
Date: 9 November 1983 05:40 EST
From: Robert Elton Maas <REM @ MIT-MC>
Subject: re: File Privacy
If you keep private files on a company computer, and you encrypt them
to protect them against random eavesdropping by your employer, does
your employer have the right to force you to decrypt them on demand?
Does your employer have the right to plant a "trojan horse" in the
encryption program that tells him the encryption keys you use? If he
does that, does he have to tell you, or can he secretly eavesdrop
while you mistakenly believe your encryption is protecting your
privacy? If your files contain anything of an embarassing nature, can
your employer disclose that eavesdropped information to outsiders
without your permission?
In military situations, you probably have no rights at all. I'm
addressing these questions re non-classified research institutions,
private businesses, and data-storage facilities on public networks.
For "employer" read also "system administrator".
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Date: 9 Nov 1983 0519-EST
From: John R. Covert <RSX-DEV at DEC-MARLBORO>
Subject: Cameras on street corners
I'm in Munich this week, and while driving through the city with
some friends, they noticed that at a new major intersection (new
street just completed), a camera was already in place.
These cameras are (as has been discussed in this digest before,
but we certainly have new readers) used to take pictures of
cars running red lights. The registered owner of the vehicle
is then responsible for the fine.
Although this is different from the example of cameras recording
everything "just in case" -- the potential for abuse does exist.
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End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
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