human-nets@ucbvax.ARPA (12/21/84)
From: Charles McGrew (The Moderator) <Human-Nets-Request@Rutgers>
HUMAN-NETS Digest Friday, 21 Dec 1984 Volume 7 : Issue 84
[Ed. Note: Happy Christmas!]
Today's Topics:
Computers and People - "Snagging" your Phone Line &
"Idea Processors" (3 msgs) &
CDs vs books,
Information - Papers on 'Programming in the Large'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wednesday, 19 Dec 1984 07:44:52-PST
From: goutal%parrot.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
Subject: two corporate nasties
Can barely type this, I'm so upset.
Just got a call from one of those book clubs
with whom I've been doing business for about a year.
After a live introduction, a taped message came on
and informed me that I was past due and then went on
to give some 800 numbers to call to straighten things out.
Fine. Soon as I got the number, I hung up,
thinking to call them right away. (Why wait?)
No such luck! When I lifted the receiver again,
instead of a dial tone, there was that tape yapping away.
I had heard that it was possible to snag somebody's line
by calling them up and just never hanging up,
but when I tried this when I first heard it several years ago
the system just broke the connection no matter who hung up first.
I just assumed that it was a bug that had existed at some point
that had been fixed before the rumour got to me.
Can anyone explain what's going on here?
I don't mind taped messages if they're truly informational
(such as this one and the ones from Sears to tell me my order is in),
but to usurp my line is outrageous! What if I had a fire?
Second item in same story:
Finally was given my line back. Called them up, a little peeved.
However, made best effort to be nice and just inform them that it
was a 'mere' oversight and that they'd have their money soonest.
But before I was allowed to tell them, "What's your account number?"
"Beats me. It's upstairs. I'm downstairs. This is where your
machine called me." "Well, I need your account number." I hung up.
Called right back, thinking, well, I'll tie up their line (an 800
number, so no cost to me, right?) for a while. Same story, of course.
I told the lady "I've got a name, and it's unique across the United
States!" (True, to the best of my knowledge.) "If you can't do
anything without my account number, it's because you've got a
STUPID PROGRAMMER!" Sure enough, "All right, what is your name?",
tappity tappity tap tap beep! "Our records show..." And so on.
So, next time some clerk gives you that b--- about needing an account
number, consider rejecting it as fact, making sure to place the blame
not on the clerk (or the machine) but on the programmer or the DP
department. It could well be just a line.
(Now as long as the sheriff doesn't show up at my door anytime soon,
I'm all set.)
Anyway, can anyone explain about how they hung up my line,
what that ability is a function of, is there a bug in the switching
software somewhere along the line, can it be legal, can it be fought,
can it be worked around?
-- Kenn Goutal
Wed 19-Dec-1984 10:46 EST
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Date: 17 December 1984 03:08-EST
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE @ MIT-MC>
Subject: Personal Assistants -- a skeptical viewpoint
To: ihnp4!utzoo!henry @ UCB-VAX
Dear sir--oh, my very dear sir. Is NOTHING going to cheer y ou
up? Can the micro revolution do nothing to help you?
Oh, well.
For me, I keep remembering what a joy Electric Pencil was after
typing millions of words on a Selectric; and while nothing that
has come after Pencil has been the quantum step up that Pencil
was in 1977, there has been steady improvement. Computers make
my life simpler. (Well, actually more complex; but I get more
done, and spend more of my time doing that which I LIKE
doing...)
I wish you as well, some day.
JEP
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From: ihnp4!utzoo!henry@Berkeley
Date: 18 Dec 84 13:03:55 CST (Tue)
To: POURNE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re: Personal Assistants -- a skeptical viewpoint
> Dear sir--oh, my very dear sir. Is NOTHING going to cheer y ou
> up? Can the micro revolution do nothing to help you?
Nope, I'd rather be grumpy and play Devil's Advocate. Bah. Humbug.
(Who is that odd fellow with the chains coming through my wall...?)
> For me, I keep remembering what a joy Electric Pencil was after
> typing millions of words on a Selectric; and while nothing that
> has come after Pencil has been the quantum step up that Pencil
> was in 1977, there has been steady improvement. Computers make
> my life simpler. (Well, actually more complex; but I get more
> done, and spend more of my time doing that which I LIKE
> doing...)
I have similar memories of encountering computerized text editing for
the first time, back in 1972. I've never written anything substantial
on a typewriter since, and have no wish to. I do appreciate the vast
improvement computers have brought, and the continuing improvements in
the situation.
What I do dislike is sales hype, or the equivalent, which claims that
innovation X is going to bring about Nirvana here on Earth in just a
few years. I.e., Real Soon Now. (Yes, I read and enjoy your column
in Byte.) In particular, the next time somebody tells me that applied
AI and/or the Fifth Generation is going to solve all my problems, I
think I'm gonna throw up. The AI folks are notorious for exuberant
promises followed by failure and disillusionment. I would have
thought they, of all people, would be a bit more cautious about
predicting the Millenium yet again. Nope, same old snake oil...
What I should have made clearer, in my earlier note, was that I do
expect some very interesting byproducts from the inevitable failures.
I have no quarrel with anyone who merely predicts significant advances
and the appearance of useful new tools. This cloud is indeed likely
to have a silver lining, even though it's not going to be solid
platinum as its proponents claim.
Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry
------------------------------
Date: 20 December 1984 00:46-EST
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE @ MIT-MC>
Subject: Personal Assistants -- a skeptical viewpoint
To: ihnp4!utzoo!henry @ UCB-VAX
Ah well, I suppose I must agree regarding the hype.
As to AI: there is a famous story.
John McCarthy some years ago is said to have bought a Heathkit
television for the Stanford AI lab. When it arrived a student
eagerly fell upon it, but was restrained.
"We will construct a robot to build the kit," McCarthy
is said to have said.
Last I heard the box was unopened.
The story is probably apochryphal][sp?] but I do recall
the Great Foreign Language Translation Revolution predicted in
the 60's...
------------------------------
From: ihnp4!utzoo!henry@Berkeley
Date: 18 Dec 84 00:31:57 CST (Tue)
Subject: longevity of paper
> There is an additional incentive for the changeover to CD's
> in the case of archival material such as big libraries of current
> and old books and journals. It has only recently been recognized
> that wood pulp paper chemically self-destructs after about a
> hundred years, reducing itself to dust. This raises the specter
> of losing our archives for the past hundred years. Cheap compact
> discs and optical readers could solve this problem...
Using a better grade of paper accomplishes the same thing, and
probably does it rather more cheaply, albeit without some other
advantages of digital storage.
> It would
> also vastly reduce the need for enormous buildings to house
> libraries.
No argument there. There are other such applications, too. I believe
the US Patent Office has been pushing for laser-disk storage for a
long time. I would observe, though, that one Compact Disk is not a
lot smaller than one paperback book. Clearly the win is getting
multiple documents on one disk. This is reasonable for archiving, but
the things are unlikely to come that way from the publishers.
Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry
------------------------------
Date: 19 December 1984 21:22-EST
From: Steven A. Swernofsky <SASW @ MIT-MC>
Subject: [feblowitz%gte-labs: forwarded]
Date: 12/19/84 02:30:08
From: feblowitz%gte-labs at CSNET-RELAY
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 84 17:53 EST
From: "Mark Feblowitz"@csnet-relay.arpa,
"GTE-Laboratories." <feblowitz%gte-labs@csnet-relay.arpa>,
mdf0%gte-labs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
To: Arpanet-bboards@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Call for Papers: Wrkshp on Environments for Programming-
Subject:m in-the-Large
CALL FOR PAPERS
Workshop in Cooperation with ACM
SOFTWARE ENVIRONMENTS FOR PROGRAMMING-IN-THE-LARGE
__________________________________________________________________
Sponsored by Wychmere Harbor Club
GTE Laboratories, Inc. Harwichport, MA (Cape Cod)
June 10-12, 1985
___________________________________________________________________
The engineering of Software Development Environments for interactive
software construction has recently made dramatic strides forward.
This workshop will address the next step in the design of
environments -- support for the special needs of very large scale
applications in all phases of the software life-cycle. Topics of
interest include: design of modifiable environments, generic support
for methodologies, requirements specification and prototyping, change
control and consistency management, transformation techniques,
formalisms for integrating phases of the life cycle, program-design
languages, wide-spectrum languages, software information databases
and others as they apply to the special needs of programming-in-
the-large.
Workshop
The workshop will provide a forum for the exchange of ideas and
experiences among researchers and practitioners active in the
relevant areas. An informal atmosphere is intended to encourage the
emergence of new perspectives. For the sake of these goals,
attendance will be limited to 60-70 selected applicants representing
a broad spectrum.
Conference Chairman
Thomas Cheatham, Harvard University
Program Committee
Lori Clarke, University of
Massachusetts
Larry Druffle, Rational Systems,
Inc.
David Leblang, Apollo Computers,
Inc.
Naftaly Minsky, Rutgers University
Thomas Ostrand, Siemens Corporate
Research, Inc.
Jay Ramanathan, Ohio State
University
Warren Teitleman, Sun Microsystems,
Inc.
Pamela Zave, AT&T Bell
Laboratories, Inc.
Stanley Zdonik, Brown University
Local Arrangements Chairman
Barbara Moore, GTE Laboratories
How To Apply
Two categories of submission are solicited:
1. Position papers: Not more than five double-spaced typed pages
summarizing the author's research or project and how it relates to
the workshop theme. (These papers will not be published.)
2. Papers for publication: Approximately 15-25 double-spaced typed
pages, presenting the author's work with emphasis on its new and
significant aspects. The selected papers will be published in the
workshop proceedings.
Please send 4 copies of a position paper or 4 copies of the draft of
a paper for publication to:
Barbara G. Moore
GTE Laboratories
Software Environments Workshop
40 Sylvan Road
Waltham, MA 02254
Submission Deadline:
January 15, 1985
Notification of Acceptance:
March 20, 1985
Camera-ready Paper Due:
April 20, 1985
Authors of accepted papers will be required to sign a form granting
permission for the paper to be published in the workshop proceedings.
Proceedings will be distributed at the workshop and may be purchased
later from GTE.
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End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
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