sf-lovers (06/11/82)
>From JPM@Mit-Ai Fri Jun 11 10:41:45 1982
SF-LOVERS Digest Tuesday, 8 Jun 1982 Volume 5 : Issue 65
Today's Topics:
SF Movies - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan,
SF Books - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan,
Spoiler - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
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Date: 7-Jun-82 10:39AM-EDT (Mon)
From: David Miller <Miller at YALE>
Subject: Star Trek II
All the reviews of this movie that I've seen so far have sounded very
good so, though I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, let me dwell on some
of its weaknesses.
While STTMP was filled with grand concepts, it lacked in plot, ST-II
has lots of plot but no grand concepts at all. There is little to
talk about (as far as the content is concerned) in this movie, except
for speculation about the ending. One can make comments about, and
repeat the many nifty lines in the film, but it reminded me more than
anything else of "Chariots of Fire" a wonderfully entertaining film
that kept your interest all through the film, but was entirely up
there on the screen, with nothing left to ponder about.
The director and writer (does anybody know who the writer was? I saw
no credit for him/her) gave in completely to the popular criticisms of
the previous films: The bridge voices were back, there was more
snappy dialogue (in STTMP there were only two lines of that type
1) "Spock, transmit now"
2) "Out there, that-a-way")
and there was blood and battle. The first two were really nice to
see, the last I'm afraid they went a bit overboard on. Really what
was the point of Scotty carrying up the broken body of his assistant
to the Bridge? And while ILM's affects are always a pleasure to look
at, almost two thirds of the film was in battle, or preparation for
battle.
Star fleet itself seems to have changed character slightly. In almost
every episode, and even in the last film, Kirk gets a chance to say
that are weapons are purely defensive, but in this film, with the new
Prussian uniforms, they goto great lengths to remove all defensive
weapons, and go onto offense whenever possible.
Finally, For Kahn having the greatest intelligence he certainly is
foolish. I guess that old D&D saying about a genius only being as
intelligent as the Dungeon Master is really true.
Perhaps the next film can be a merger of the strengths of both films,
then we'll have not only a fun film, but a good piece of cinema.
Dave
(miller@yale)
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Date: 7 June 1982 08:28-EDT
From: Andrew Scott Beals <BANDY at MIT-AI>
Subject: Star Trek II - TWoK
Is a GREAT movie! Both the special effects and the editing was good,
although, the plot /did/ have some silly moments. Does anybody know if
the was that they're going to bring back Spock has anything to do with
his touching McCoy's head and saying ``remember''? (I would guess that
this /is/ the way, but then again....)
- Andy
- andrew.univax at brl-bmd
- dbl!andy.univax at brl-bmd
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Date: Tuesday, June 8, 1982 6:19PM
From: Jim McGrath (The Moderator) <JPM at MIT-AI>
Subject: SPOILER WARNING! SPOILER WARNING!
The following messages are the last in the digest. They discuss some
plot details in both the movie and the book Star Trek II: The Wrath
of Khan. Some readers may not wish to read on.
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Date: 8 June 1982 9:21 am PDT (Tuesday)
From: MORRILL.PA
Subject: Star Trek II
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****SPOILER***SPOILER***SPOILER***SPOILER***SPOILER***SPOILER******
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Spock lies, McCoy's bootlegging whiskey, Kirk's got an illegitimate
son and Scotty has V.D. What ever happen to those nice boys who ran
the Enterprise fifteen years ago?
Toby
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Date: 8 Jun 1982 13:22 EDT
From: Stevenson.WBST at PARC-MAXC
Subject: Re: Star Trek II
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****SPOILER***SPOILER***SPOILER***SPOILER***SPOILER***SPOILER******
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"What ever happened to those nice boys who ran the
Enterprise fifteen years ago?"
They're going right on doing what they've always done:
1. Saavik: "You lied!"
Spock: "I exaggerated."
Spock already proved he's capable of "exaggeration" (and explained
why) in "The Enterprise Incident".
2. McCoy bought bootleg Romulan ale; he didn't smuggle it himself.
In various Trek episodes he prescribed booze for "medicinal
purposes", as did Dr. Boyce before him. (I think it was Dr.
Boyce who "prescribed" for Captain Pike in "The Cage"/"The
Menagerie" -- or was Boyce the doctor in "Where No Man Has
Gone Before"?)
3. There is no such thing as an "illegitimate child"; there are only
"illegitimate" parents. Kirk could have been married to Carol
Marcus at the time of David's birth -- there may be such things
as temporary "contract" marriages in that era. The fact that Kirk
married Miramanee (and got her pregnant) in "The Paradise
Syndrome" seems to indicate that he's less than totally averse
to marriage and children.
4. Ok, you've got me there. The looks on Kirk's, Scotty's, and
McCoy's faces certainly indicated that Scotty had caught something
embarrassing. (But is VD any more embarrassing than athlete's foot
in the 23rd century? Maybe Scotty's embarrassing medical problem
was dandruff - any Head & Shoulders commercial I've ever seen
implied that that's the REALLY disgusting "social disease".)
Scotty was always portrayed as being a bit of a hall-raiser -- when
he could be forced into spending time away from his engines, that
is. He displayed a definite propensity for alcoholic beverages in
"The Tholian Web" and "By Any Other Name", to mention a couple,
called himself "an old Glasgow pub-crawler" in "Wolf in the Fold",
and threw the first punch in the barroom brawl in "The Trouble With
Tribbles".
Bill
("Picky, picky, picky!" screams the audience.)
------------------------------
Date: 8 June 1982 11:52 edt
From: Barry Margolin at MIT-MULTICS
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest V5 #63
Re: pronouns and Star Trek II
(Very mild spoiler warning - moderator's discretion)
Now that I have seen ST:TWOK twice, I am convinced that in the scene
between Kirk and David near he end David refers to Saavik as "he".
Can anyone corroborate this?
Other questions about Saavik have come up around here. First, there
is her (his?) name. In the series we were led to believe that Vulcan
male names are of the form S---k (except for Stonn, the man who wanted
to marry Spock's fiancee), and that female names were of the form
T'P---. Saavik seems to be of the male form.
Then there is her species. I believe that there were reports in this
digest claiming that she is half-Vulcan and half-Romulan. Are we
expected to have been able to derive this from the movie? And if she
is, she would have to be at most 16 earth-years old, because we saw
what claimed to be the first face-to-face meeting between Federation
members and Romulans in the original series episode "Balance of
Terror".
barmar
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Date: 5 Jun 1982 1842-EDT
From: Thomas Galloway <Galloway at YALE>
Subject: ST II- Movie vs book
*SPOILER WARNING* *GO SEE THE MOVIE FIRST!*
After catching ST-II last night, i bought the novelization by Vonda
McIntyre. All in all, a good job, but some things in the book really
should have been in the movie, and based on previous rumors, etc.,
believe they were at one time, but got cut out.
I) Saavik is supposed to be half Romulan as well as Vulcan. This
would help explain her "Damn" in the opening, and leads to quite
a bit of character development in the book. Hopefully, this will
be played up, with a bit of prejudice of the part of the crew
towards her.
II) Peter Preston, the engineering cadet who Scotty carried up to the
bridge and who was the only one to stick at his post, was
Scotty's nephew. As I recall, Scotty was looking rather proud
when Kirk singled Pete out. There was also a good scene where
Kirk teases Pete, but Pete gets back by presenting him with a
"left-handed scanner".
III) Sulu is now a captain and about to take over his own ship. This
ties in with the line "good to have you back on for three weeks
Mr. Sulu".
IV) The scene where Terril kills himself is done better, giving him a
bit more reason to be able to throw off Khan's control.
V) David finds out when he attacks Kirk who his father is.
VI) There's a lead-in to bringing Spock back at the end.
All in all, a good job of novelization and film . Just wish some of
these elements had made it through the editing, particularly the first
two.
tom
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Date: 7 Jun 1982 2054-EDT
From: HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mgr DEC-20s/Dir LCSR Comp Facility)
Subject: some background for those who plan to see Star Trek II
I have just finished reading the novel based on Star Trek: the Wrath
of Khan, by Vonda McIntyre. I recommend the book, even if you see the
movie. It has enough more material to be worth reading, particularly
in its handling of the characters of Saavik, Spock, Peter Preston, and
the folks on the Regula Spacelab. I am including some information
from the book, to help tie up some of the loose ends left after seeing
the movie. I have tried not to say so much that this will spoil
either the movie or the book.
The loose ends it ties up are mostly associated with Saavik and Peter
Preston. The movie, at least in the form we see it, centers around
Adm. Kirk and the people around him (Spock, McCoy, etc.). In the
book, there is a second center of attention around Saavik, including
Saavik, Peter, and David. There seems to be some evidence that a lot
of this was originally in the script and ended up on the cutting room
floor. I will not actually tie up said loose ends (in order to avoid a
spoiler rating) but will give the background necessary for you to do
so yourself when you see the movie.
Saavik: Saavik is half Vulcan and half Romulan. No one knows who her
parents are, but from the habits of both races it seems that she is
probably the result of rape. Now and then Romulans manage to kidnap a
Vulcan and rape him or her (perhaps rape is too mild a word for the
actual situation, but it will do for a summary). The resulting child
is of no interest to either race. Saavik ended up growing up in the
underworld of a Romulan colony world. The Romulans gave up the colony
as a lost cause, and withdrew their personnel. Of course they did not
bother with Saavik or those like her. Some time later, an expedition
from Vulcan found the planet. The Vulcans weren't much more
enthusiastic, but Mr. Spock, who happened to be on the expedition,
forced them to do their duty by the half-breeds, and Saavik was
rescued. This history explains why Saavik does not seem to be a
normal Vulcan. Spock clearly believes that Saavik should not try to
be a Vulcan - her background does not allow it. Spock was able to
function as one only because he grew up with the Vulcan disciplines.
He would prefer to see her end up as an effective human than an
ineffective Vulcan. However Saavik quite naturally idolizes Spock,
and wants to be like him. By the way, Saavik strikes me as someone
that we are likely to see more of in future episodes (if any).
Peter Preston is not actually part of the crew of the ship. He is a
cadet, 14 years old. It sounds like this is a 23rd-century equivalent
of the sea scouts. After all, this is a training voyage, and it is
not unheard of to take scouts on such a trip. His station is the
second backup control for the auxiliary power. There is seems to
have been a casting problem here. The movie uses 18-year olds for
their 18-year olds. So when they use someone at least as old for
Peter, the relative ages come out wrong. Also, some of Peter's dialog
needs a 13 or 14-year old actor. I suggest using your imagination when
watching him. In particular, Kirk's first encounter with him makes
many people think that Starfleet has suddenly turned militaristic. If
you keep in mind his actual age, you will realize what is really going
on. The book does quite a nice job in portraying Peter. As with many
adolescents, everything he tries to say or do comes out embarrassing
him. To make things worse, he is Scotty's nephew. (Have you ever seen
what happens when a teacher has his own son in his class? a fate worse
than death...) Despite this, he is a thoroughly sweet kid, and
clearly everyone on the crew loves him. Spock assigns him to Saavik
to be tutored in math, with the intention of showing Saavik the bright
side of being human . In general, it seems to work.
a random comment:
yes, the Enterprise does have robots capable of doing repairs in areas
with high radiation. However if they are used continually, they
eventually give out due to radiation damage.
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End of SF-LOVERS Digest
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