sf-lovers (06/28/82)
>From JPM@Mit-Ai Mon Jun 28 10:33:20 1982
SF-LOVERS Digest Saturday, 26 Jun 1982 Volume 5 : Issue 71
Today's Topics:
Administrivia - Hardware Failure,
SF Movies - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan,
SF Books - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan,
Spoiler - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
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Date: Sunday, June 27, 1982 6:00AM
From: Jim McGrath (The Moderator) <JPM at MIT-AI>
Reply-to: SF-LOVERS-REQUEST at MIT-AI
Subject: Hardware Failure
Hardware failures at sites needed to prepare and distribute the digest
have interfered with the transmission schedule. All these
difficulties should be finally resolved for now.
Jim
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Date: Sunday, June 27, 1982 6:00AM
From: Jim McGrath (The Moderator) <JPM at MIT-AI>
Subject: SPOILER WARNING! SPOILER WARNING!
All of the messages in this digest discuss some plot details in both
the movie and the book Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Some readers
may not wish to read on.
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Date: 11-Jun-1982
From: PAUL KARGER AT RDVAX
Reply-to: "PAUL KARGER AT RDVAX c/o" <Young at DEC-Marlboro>
Subject: ST-TWOK - Spoiler Warning
This message reveals how Spock is killed off and therefore deserves a
spoiler warning.
I very much enjoyed Star Trek II, until they came to the actual
killing off of Spock. Then they reverted to the usual TV show habit
of defining an impossible problem and promptly ignoring a trivial
solution.
When Spock went into the radiation chamber, why didn't he wear a
protective suit? Such suits have existed since the 1940's, and surely
would have been made better by the 23rd century. Why wasn't such a
suit kept for emergency purposes. Alternately, why weren't there
waldoes available? Again - 1940's technology.
Aside from this one stupidity, the movie was quite well done - much
better than the previous movie.
------------------------------
Date: 14-Jun-82 9:41:19 PDT (Monday)
From: Pettit at PARC-MAXC
Subject: Re: Kahn knowing Chekhov "blooper"
I'll bet the movie-makers knew all along that Chekhov didn't come on
board until after the Kahn episode. They studied all the Star Trek
episodes carefully for atmosphere, characterization, etc., and
something like that is just too obvious. They probably just decided
that the dramatic potential in having Chekhov know all about Khan and
the Botany Bay, and having Khan recognize Chekhov as part of Kirk's
old crew, etc., was important enough that it was worth the
inconsistency with the TV show. So I wouldn't really classify this as
a blooper.
I was more struck by the oddity of Khan's quoting an old Klingon
proverb. Just where did he pick up a repertoire of Klingon proverbs
when he was plucked out of the 20th century and almost immediately
marooned on an isolated planet? Someone has suggested that maybe it
was somewhere in the stuff from the Enterprise's library which he
scanned at superspeed, but that seems a little far-fetched to me.
Two other oddities were (1) from the TV show, it seems that Star Fleet
computers generally volunteer all the historical data on record about
a planetary system whenever the ship approaches it, so that it is hard
to believe that it wouldn't have notified them that Khan had been
exiled in that system, or that Kirk wouldn't have remembered it
sooner, for all that goes. And (2) since when does a scorpion-like
indigenous life form infesting a planet, along with a dozen or so
human beings, register on a scanner as "a particle of pre-animate
matter caught in the matrix?" That ought to be enough life to cause a
healthy unambiguous blip on the instruments. But, as has been
remarked before, watching Star Trek does require a large capacity for
suspension of disbelief.
--Teri Pettit (at Xerox SDD in Palo Alto)
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Date: 15 Jun 1982 1418-MDT
From: Evelyn Mathey <MATHEY at SANDIA>
Subject: STAR TREK : TWOK
We have a saying in the theatre that one must induce in the audience a
"willing suspense of disbelief". No matter how hard the actors work,
how expensive the special effects or how bug-free the writing there
will always be errors in a production. In some they are minor, in
others, alas we, the audience, can no longer believe that pixie dust
can make you fly, that Frodo can walk undetected into Mordor, or that
Kirk can have a grown son who is proud of his father. Sometimes this
mismatching of production and audience is the fault of the production,
sometimes the audience; most often of both. While I too have some
critisms of TWOK, I am sorry that the problems really seemed to get to
some of you.
If I may be allowed a few comments of my own:
1. Although the "critters" moved the plot forward, I could have done
without the one crawling out of Chekov's ear. I felt the need for an
explanation there. Why did it leave its nice warm home?? (ugh)
2. I believe Spock telling McCoy to "remember" is laying the
groundwork for ST III. Obviously the genesis action will use Spock's
body to create another. One would assume that body to be without
"soul" (substitute mind,essence or whatever you prefer). In previous
Star Trek episodes, Spock's personality has been impressed onto
another for a time. I believe that McCoy now carries Spock's soul and
will reunite soul and body in the next movie.
3. I also noticed Khan's "RHM" and would like more information.
Also, is the Phoenix still making it anywhere? It disappeared around
here after about three shows, which was a shame, as I thought it had
promise.
4. I disagree with the statement the Khan's superior intelligence was
defeated by his lack of knowledge. That played a part, as did his
egomania. But he was ultimately defeated (if you accept Kirk's getting
away from him as his defeat) by Spock's love.
All in all, I liked the movie. Whether it was logical or not I
thought the nebula effects spectacular. I also think it is a good idea
to start introducing a "second generation" of Star Trek characters.
Evelyn
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Date: 15 Jun 82 21:07:55-EDT (Tue)
From: Michael Muuss <mike@BRL>
Subject: Vulcan "Remember!" (SPOILER?)
The Mind Melded "REMEMBER!" that Spock gives McCoy seemed (to me) to
forshaddow McCoy's line "He isn't really dead as long as we remember
him..." (or thereabouts) in the bridge scene at the end.
Whether this is a "hook" into the sequel ("In Search of Spock"), or
just a leftover shard that the cutting room missed, I don't know. I
was rather disappointed that several of the scenes I saw in the promo
at Balticon didn't actually make it into the movie.... Looks like
they actually TOOK OUT some of the character development. Sigh.
Countably infinite technical inaccuracies and all, I still loved it!
More! More!
-Mike
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Date: 15 Jun 1982 1003-PDT
From: Jirak at SRI-AI (Greg Mike Ken)
Subject: Spoiler: Spock's "Remember"
One of the last scenes on the bridge is Kirk and McCoy,
watching the planet, thinking about Spock. McCoy says "He isn't
really dead as long as we remember him", or words to that effect. I
imagine Spock's remember may have something to do with this, and the
sequel. A thought, anyway.
I second McClure's comment on Foster!
/Mike Achenbach
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Date: 14 Jun 82 20:42:32 EDT (Mon)
From: Steve Bellovin <smb.unc@UDel-Relay>
Subject: Star Trek II -- "Remember"
My *strong* suspicion is that it has something to do with Spock's
return/resurrect/reincarnation. Perhaps he's taking a backup dump of
his memories...
------------------------------
Date: Monday, 14 Jun 1982 13:59-PDT
From: jim at RAND-UNIX
Subject: Remember - ST:TWoK (spoiler)
I think it's possible that the "remember" command to McCoy is a
lead-in to when Spock's Genesis-reanimated body is found, but the
brain cells, having been decomposed at one time, have forgotten
everything they know. Saavik or some other telepathically-trained
person sucks the carefully stored Spock mentality out of McCoy, and
we're back in business.
There is some precedent for storing peoples' minds in others': seems
to me Spock and Nurse Chapel shared her brain when the disembodied
intelligence Sargon (I think it was), who lived in a lighted globe,
took over Spock's body and Spock's globe was destroyed.
Of course, the "Remember" was used legitimately in the last scene,
where McCoy says Spock is alive as long as we remember him, so we
don't need to reach this far...
------------------------------
Date: 14 June 1982 6:10 pm PDT (Monday)
From: Thomka.ES
Reply-to: Thomka.es
Subject: ST2 (spoiler warning)
After seeing the movie in question (which I throughly enjoyed, and
think it's the best ST going) I feel that the possibility of Spock's
re-birth is very likely BUT because of the Genesis device, and the
eventual reincarnation, the new Spock will be much younger. This, of
course, leaves great gobs of people who can now portray Spock since he
(the eventual selected actor) would then only have to slighty resemble
Nimoy.
Clever. Of course if Nimoy can be persuaded (money-wise I'm sure) to
don the ears one more time then all of the above is held in abeyance
until the next possible death.
Chuck
Note: I did not notice the capsule "doors" ajar.
------------------------------
Date: 14 June 1982 19:35-EDT (Monday)
From: Mijjil (Matthew J. Lecin) <LECIN at GREEN>
Reply-to: Lecin at RUTGERS
Subject: Spoiler for ST:TWoK
Remember what? It is obvious to the most casual of observers!
Seriously, I have a theory...
When they return to Genesis Alpha or whatever the planet gets called,
they will find an animate "Spock body" which is they now alive
"regenerated" body - and a BLANK mind. The body will physically be
PERFECT but there won't be any memories! There won't be any Spock in
the body!
McCoy is STORING Spock's memories until they are needed to be fed back
into the empty Spock brain...
Are we worried that Leonard McCoy will run out of room in his brain?
The average person uses about 6% of brain right? That means Bones
uses about 4%!
<Mijjil>
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End of SF-LOVERS Digest
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