ARPAVAX:UNKNOWN:sf-lovers (09/12/82)
>From SFL@SRI-CSL Sat Sep 11 02:20:40 1982
SF-LOVERS Digest Sunday, 22 Aug 1982 Volume 6 : Issue 45
Today's Topics:
SF Books - Stanislaw Lem & Carlos Castenada,
Humor - Puns, SF Topics - Violence in SF,
Random Topics - Violence in Movies, SF Movies - Blade Runner,
Spoiler - Violence in Movies & Blade Runner
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Date: 20 August 1982 1042-EDT
From: Don Provan at CMU-10A
Subject: Lem
i've always been a big fan of Lem, even his bad stuff. i
think it's a real mistake to underrate Memoirs Found in a Bathtub.
comparing it to Waiting for Godot is exactly correct, although
"reminiscent" is much too weak a word. the mood and underlying
philosophy are exactly the same as Waiting. the only real difference
is that in the Memoirs the main character is not passive, although his
existence is just as pointless.
if this is damning evidence, so be it. to me, Waiting for
Godot is a great play. if all you see in it is tedium, then you
probably should avoid the Memoirs Found in a Bathtub.
another excellent novel by Lem that i haven't heard mentioned
is Solaris. of all the Lem, this one to me should be required
reading. it's a high powered and thought provoking book about one man
trying to relate to a planet which is an intelligent life form.
someone who has only read his humorous work may be surprised at the
seriousness of this one. it was made into a four hour movie by some
russian film maker many years ago. the only version i've ever heard
of showing in the u.s. was one cut down to normal 2 hour movie size.
one can't stress the translator's role in Lem's work enough.
in Cyberaid, one begins to wonder in Lem wrote some of the passages in
english versions. it's hard to believe a translator could come up
with translations that work so well. there's some word work of such
high quality that i can't remember ever seeing an english book which
abused the language so eloquently. perhaps some one with a copy of
Cyberaid at hand could copy in a passage to let everyone else in on
what we're talking about.
my favorite story in Cyberaid is a story about someone telling
a story about three robots telling stories, one of which is about a
machine that a king can plug into to have dreams, and in one of the
dreams there's a story....etc. and at the end of each story, you're
pulled back into context without losing a step. a real masterpiece.
don
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Date: Sat Aug 14 23:13:35 1982
From: decvax!utzoo!watmath!watarts!geo
Subject: Carlos Castenada's Books of Yaqui Knowledge as Fantasy?
One of the articles McLure copied over from LOTS accused Dune and
Stranger in a Strange Land of being intellectually dishonest books
that pandered to shallow mystics.
Well, have any of you read any of Carlos Castenada's books? I read
them as a teen-ager,when they came out. A lot of my friends were very
influenced by his accounts of his lessons from "Don Juan", a "Yaqui
Indian " sorcerer.
His earliest two books were written when a considerable number of
people were involved with so-called "consciousness-expanding" drugs.
In these two books Castenada is taught through naturally- occurring
consciousness-expanding drugs.
By the time he wrote his third and fourth books, drugs had lost their
charm for most people. Strangely enough, they had lost their charm
for Don Juan too! Mystic auras, mind power, and personal growth were
the order of the day with Don Juan.
I understand that in his latest two books Carlos learns about feminine
power.
I accuse Castenada of being an out and out fraud, who has
calculatingly concocted stories which have seduced his readers with
untruths that may have caused them to base their parts of their lives,
and/or their personal philosophies upon his lies.
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Date: 17 Aug 82 9:59:19-EDT (Tue)
From: Andrew Scott Beals <andrew.umcp-cs@UDel-Relay>
Subject: startrek limerick
Not bad, but I really do prefer good 'ol puns.
But be careful never to point a pun at someone, because it might be
loaded.
... And you might kill your pun-pal.
... And end up in the punitentary.
... That would be to much punishment to bear.
... etc.
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Date: 16 Aug 82 23:13:56-EDT (Mon)
From: Gene Spafford <spaf.gatech@UDel-Relay>
Subject: Why is the future so violent?
Science fiction deals with our futures and directions. The ex-
istence of our future is not an article of fiction, however. We can
speculate and fantasize about our futures. We can influence our
futures, too. I'd like to throw out a few thoughts here and see what
kind of discussion they provoke. How much of yourself will you see in
some of this? How are you influencing our collective future?
Think for a moment or two about some of the stories that have had some
effect on your thoughts. What was the last book you read where the
hero was a person who regularly tried to negotiate and counsel peace?
I'm not talking about books where the hero/heroine was in the right
place at the right time and was able to stop some disaster in the
making. I'm talking about stories about people whose philosophy was
really based on peace instead of violence.
How about speculative fiction? It is easy to conjure up memories of
interstellar warfare...the Dorsai, Pournelle's mercenaries, Ensign
Flandry, Joe Haldeman's stories.... The list goes on and on. The
only memorable character who regularly attempts negotiation is Retief
(Keith Laumer). Why do the people who envision our future see it to
be so violent?
Perhaps the roots lie deeper. Who are our heroes right now? The pro
football player whose talent is running over the other players? The
heavyweight boxer? The TV cops? Why don't we idolize people who save
thousands of lives, or at least try? Who in America will remember
Phillip Habib 5 years from now? We have issue after issue of major
magazines talking about Colonel Beckworth who led the commandos in the
abortive raid to free the hostages in Iran, but who remembers the name
of the Algerian Prime Minister who negotiated their eventual release
(and was later killed in an airplane crash while trying to negotiate a
ceasefire in another conflict)? How many Jonas Salk dolls were ever
made, as compared to GI Joe and Megaforce toys? Name 5 recipients of
the NFL player of the year award. Now name 5 recipients of the Nobel
Peace Prize. Who are *your* heroes? Who do you respect?
How do we encourage our children to live in a more peaceful world? We
have the Saturday morning cartoons where the roadrunner has become
more sadistic (as noted in a previous submission). Their comic books
and movies feature whole planets being destroyed by supposedly
intelligent beings. And how about the video games? You can go out
and destroy aliens and enemy planes, but just try to negotiate. It is
simply kill or be killed. I hope that aliens from another planet have
the good sense (or good luck) to land in a country that has never had
any video games.
to belabor a point, next time you go into a video arcade, or a game
store (like D&D, Traveller, War in Europe, etc.), or look at a home
video game system, see if you can find any peaceful games. Think
about it the next time you read about the President appointing an
actor or businessman as an ambassador to another country. Think about
it the next time Congress budgets more money for military bands than
they do for the entire National Endowment for the Arts. Think about
it when we're about to spend $30 billion on MX missiles.
I just wish that what I see around me was the fiction. Can someone
direct me to some science fiction which presents a gentler view of
ourselves and our futures? Better yet, can someone direct us all
towards a more peaceful future?
Gene Spafford
School of Information and Computer Sciences
Georgia Institute of Technology
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Date: Sunday, August 22, 1982 8:02AM
From: Jim McGrath (The Moderator) <SFL at SRI-CSL>
Subject: SPOILER WARNING! SPOILER WARNING!
The last two messages in this digest discuss some plot details in the
movie Blade Runner. Some readers may not wish to read on.
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Date: 16 Aug 1982 12:40 PDT
From: SJohnson.ES at PARC-MAXC
Subject: Violence : Blade Runner vs Road Runner (Semi-Spoiler)
While it may seem ridiculous to measure violence on an objective
scale, please bear with me. I saw Blade Runner this weekend, and yes,
I felt that it was very violent, from a "subjective" viewpoint.
However, when I make an "objective" comparison between BR and RR, the
latter comes out to be the more violent of the two. For example, it is
subjectively more violent to see Roy Batty break 3 of Deckard's
fingers than it is to see the Coyote run over by a train. But looking
at it objectively, I would rather be Deckard than the Coyote. After
all, I am a \real/ person, living in the \real/ world, and a \real/
train is going to \really/ kill me.
Movies like Blade Runner show us the violence close-up, in a personal
way, which is what a lot of people seem to be objecting to. These
movies are alleged to have a negative effect on certain viewers,
making them more likely to commit violent acts. I would like to think
that the average viewer is not a latent psycho-path. "Road Runner"
(substitute "Star Wars", "Hawaii Five-0", etc) shows me all the fun,
but none of the gory, disgusting truth. Blade Runner (and
films/books/tv shows like it) shows me why I want to avoid violence,
and keep it from happenning to myself and others.
- Swen
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Date: 19 August 1982 0939-EDT
From: [10,104] at Avsail
Sender: ROUHIER at WPAFB-AFWAL
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #40
The idea of smallpox vaccinations in Blade Runner is not
without precedence. At the present time every member of the U.S.'s
armed forces, active duty and reserves, is required to have smallpox
vaccinations (along with a host of others). I've had two within the
last twelve years. Since he works for a government police force I
wouldn't be surprised if he gets inoculated for everything under the
sun.
Bye,
Chuck
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End of SF-LOVERS Digest
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