ARPAVAX:UNKNOWN:sf-lovers (10/12/82)
>From SFL@SRI-CSL Mon Oct 11 02:37:15 1982 SF-LOVERS Digest 11-Oct-82 Volume 6 : Issue 52 Today's Topics: Star Trek, Tron, Fantasy movies, Jedi, Spielberg, etc. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tuesday, 10 August 1982 13:00-PDT From: Jonathan Alan Solomon <JSol at USC-ECLC> To: SF-LOVERS at MIT-AI Address: 2817 Orchard Ave. Los Angeles, CA 90007 Phone: (213) 732-3423 Subject: su password on the Enterprise It could be reasonable to assume that the SU password for YOUR ship was online, since it would have to know whether or not you gave it correctly, but there could be a simple algorithm (someone already said this) and you would have to know this to get the results. In short, Khan could have known the RELIANT's password but not the ENTERPRISE's password. Spock, if he knew the algorithm, could have fed in the proper data (including, for example, the ship's serial number and the name of the Cap'ts first born male child), and come up with the right answer, authorization or not. If I were Star Fleet I would not trust the passwords to other ships or the algorithm for determining same to a computer and some authorization restriction, considering Khan and his crew could have patched in a NOOP instruction around the password check as easily as one can do that in today's world. --JSol -------------------- Date: 05-Aug-1982 Subject: Star Trek II - Spoiler Warning and Bad Joke From: PAUL KARGER AT RDVAX From: PAUL KARGER AT RDVAX This one deserves a spoiler warning. It's also only humorous to DECnet network managers. When Adm. Kirk needed to penetrate the Reliant's security and shut down the shields, he obviously used the DECnet Phase XXVII network control program and said: $ MCR NCP NCP>TELL RELIANT LOWER SHIELDS NCP>... -------------------- Date: 13 Sep 1982 (Monday) 2046-EDT From: OSTER at Wharton-10 (David Oster) Subject: bit in TRON To: sf-lovers at SRI-CSL The bit in TRON was indeed tristable. Its three states were: Yes (presumably +,1) No (presumably -, 0) and Floating. By the way, the sequel to Stand on Zanzibar was "The Sheep Look Up". -------------------- Date: 13 Sep 1982 21:45:28 EST (Monday) From: Mike Meyer <mwm at OKC-UNIX> Subject: Fantasy Movies To: sf-lovers at sri-csl Cc: mwm at OKC-UNIX There have recently been a couple of Fantasy movies released that share a common feature: They are in the same quality range as the SF of the fifties. That is, the movies use a bad sample of the gendre, and are poorly made. I am speaking of (from personal experience) The Sword and the Sorcerer, BeastMaster, and (via hearsay) Conan. The two of these that I saw I enjoyed for the same reason I enjoy such things as It Conquered the World and Plan Nine from Outer Space. Could it be that when the movies pick up a new gendre that way, there is a tendency for producers/etc. to try and do it cheaply, hoping that the draw will be to the fans of the gendre instead of movie fans? Does this imply that we are going to have to put up with bad fantasy for roughly 25 years before somebody does it right? Comments, anyone? mike -------------------- Date: 14 Sep 1982 11:01:57-EDT From: csin!cjh at CCA-UNIX To: sf-lovers at sri-csl Subject: re: Revenge of the Jedi At Chicon IV the people who presented a slide show and a special short film on the development of some of the [monsters] in the new cantina band said specifically that Obi-Wan does \\not// come back in the flesh, that they merely haven't gotten around to doing the [ghost] effect yet. This is not implausible, given that trailers being shown the February before the release of A NEW HOPE were missing some cute features of the final cut (e.g. colored light-sabers) but I wonder whether it's just another smokescreen. -------------------- Date: 13 Sep 1982 11:44:21-EDT From: csin!cjh at CCA-UNIX To: dolata at sumex-aim Subject: Spielberg Cc: sf-lovers at sri-csl The best-known obscure Spielberg film is a non-fantasy (in fact, it's based on an actual incident) called SUGARLAND EXPRESS. It dates from well before CE3K and is about a woman (played by Goldie Hawn, of all people) who snatches her husband from jail and hijacks a police car to prevent the state from taking away her baby. I don't recall either this or RAIDERS being filmed with particularly soft lighting, but my lighitng experience is entirely with stage productions, where the effects of filters are quite different. (According to the AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER, if you're looking for a really softly-lit movie see ANNIE---the lighting supervisor was quote as saying that there wasn't a single instrument without some sort of softening filter over it, ranging from silk to vaseline.) Date: 11 Sep 1982 21:07:22-EDT From: cfh at CCA-UNIX (Christopher Herot) To: SF-LOVERS at SRI-CSL Subject: re: Stephen Spielberg's early stuff As far as I know, Spielberg's first feature length work was the made-for-TV film "Duel". It stared Dennis Weaver as a mild-mannered motorist harassed by a homicidal (but unseen) truck driver. It is available on LaserVision videodisk. Not bad for TV. -------------------- Date: 29 August 1982 22:10-EDT (Sunday) Sender: LECIN at RU-GREEN From: Mijjil (Matthew Jody Lecin) <LECIN at RUTGERS> To: Sf-Lovers at MIT-AI cc: Lecin at RUTGERS Subject: Star Trek (random trivia point) But did anyone besides me ever wonder why they named her Christine Chapel? The pun on Sistine Chapel has always amused me. >Mijjil -------------------- Date: 29 Jul 1982 0136-CDT From: CS.EMERSON at UTEXAS-20 Subject: the Science Fiction Book Club To: sf-lovers at MIT-AI cc: cs.emerson at UTEXAS-20 I am considering joining the Science Fiction Book Club. Does anyone know if it is a good deal. For instance, what books have constituted their selections over the past few months? Are they reliable? Etc. -------------------- Date: 10 August 1982 12:07 edt From: Boebert.SCOMP at MIT-MULTICS Subject: Copy of old Astounding cover wanted To: sf-lovers at MIT-AI I would like to obtain a copy of the cover of Astounding SF which illustrated a story called "...And a Star to Steer Her By," author unknown, subject space travel in a rocketship called Fafnir. The cover was, I believe, the first time AstoundIing had used photography (of a model, natch.) If any collector has this issue, and would be willing to color xerox it, I would cover all copy/mailing expenses. Replies to me directly, this is really too trivial for the Digest. I would also appreciate author/issue/reprint data on the story. Earl -------------------- Date: 17 Aug 1982 1755-EDT From: YOUNG at DEC-MARLBORO To: SF-LOVERS at MIT-AI Subject: [DD-B <DYER-BENNET at KL2137>: SFL submission] More forwarded DEC SFL - - - - - - - Begin message from: DD-B <DYER-BENNET at KL2137> Date: 16 Aug 1982 1820-EDT From: DD-B <DYER-BENNET at KL2137> To: YOUNG at MARKET cc: dyer-bennet.dean at KL2137 Reply-to: DYER-BENNET at KL2137 DTN: 231-4076 Mailstop: MRO1-2/L14 Subject: SFL submission Message-ID: <"MS10(2066)+GLXLIB1(1056)" 11848366356.38.253.34235 at KL2137> ( Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #34 ) (decvax!utzoo!henry at Berkeley) I finished Dragon Lensman, so I can tell you that you aren't missing much if you haven't. I also saw a second book by David Kyle, Lensman from Rigel, in an "upcoming books" list. I hadn't known the original publication order of the Lensman books, which I suppose shows I'm a lazy reader rather than an energetic fan. The Ellern story you mention has been published as a novel (presumably expanded). I found the divergence of technology to be a great problem -- he suddenly introduced computers into the middle of the Lensman universe!! The lack of computer technology throughout the Lensman series was one of its more humorous points for me, so its appearance startled me. I actually found Triplanetary and First Lensman to be among my favorites in the series. I'm not sure that knowing what they and the forewards to the later books supply really spoils the story. It gives you a different perspective on it, certainly. ( Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #36 ) (A.AVERY at SU-LOTS (l. avery)) You appear to have missed ALL of Heinlein's awards, which include (from memory) Hugos for Double Star, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and Stranger in a Strange Land. A Canticle for Leibowitz is by Walter M. Miller. ( Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #36 ) (A.AVERY at SU-LOTS (l. avery)) I didn't see Niven & Pournelle's The Mote in God's Eye on your ratings list. Since I agree with you about the importance of A Martian Oddyssey (and agree with your reasons), and about The Gods Themselves in this context, you may care to know that I think the aliens in Mote are the best I've found anywhere. I still like Heinlein's children's books. I'm at least somewhat familiar with the children's books you list. I like Narnia, and the McKillip books, and of course Earthsea. Heinlein's "juveniles" are such a large part of his output, especially of his early output, that ignoring them in evaluating Heinlein is a mistake. I wondered where you got the idea that his fiction is all sex-oriented. It is possible to get that impression from things since Stranger, but the stuff before that has very little sex in it (REALLY very little, like usually none). LeGuin, on the other hand, I don't like too well at all, with the aforementioned exception of the Earthsea trilogy. The Left Hand of Darkness was dull. It had what I consider to be the worst possible single character flaw: the protagonist seemed stupid. It's hard to be sympathetic towards someone that you think is creating his own problems as he goes. I was surprised that that book won awards -- I mean, it had not occurred to me that it could possibly have any chance of winning. I enjoyed The Dispossessed, but it has not drawn me back for re-reading. I re-read it anyway, since I thought I had liked it and normally I'm a heave re-reader, and found that on reevaluation it was a shallow and dishonest book, failing to actually come to grips at all with the problems it claims to address. I'm not sure I have the energy to carry out this discussion with thousands of people helping us, or the energy to re-read yet again these books I didn't like so that I can discuss them from more recent memory. We'll see how it goes.... ( Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #39 ) (Tom Wadlow <TAW at S1-A>) I second the recommendation of The Subspace Explorers. For those rounding out the collection, the other completed real works I know about are Spacehounds of IPC and The Galaxy Primes. I enjoy them all, with perhaps a slight preference for Subspace Explorers and The Galaxy Primes. Also, it is a very interesting exercise to compare them with the usual definition of Space Opera, of which Doc Smith is usually cited as the most standard example. ( Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #39 ) (P.PHIGMENT at SU-LOTS) "Does anyone else out there love E.E."Doc" Smith?" Guilty. (Not that I feel guilty about it). This should be apparent from various remarks above and in previous digests. -------- - - - - - - - End forwarded message -------- Date: 18 Aug 1982 1323-EDT From: ECG.RICH.ALA at DEC-MARLBORO To: SF-LOVERS at MIT-AI Reply-to: ECG.ALA at DEC-MARLBORO Subject: CONTRIBUTIONS FROM ENET SF-LOVERS Message-ID: <"MS10(2055)+GLXLIB1(1056)" 11848836640.51.332.3290 at DEC-MARLBORO> Posted-date: 14-Aug-1982 To: SF-LOVERS @KIRK Subject: Blade Runner Anachronism (non-spoiler) From: PAUL WINALSKI AT METOO I think that Deckerd having a smallpox vaccination scar is a true anachronism, if he's supposed to have been born in the late 1980's. Sporadic individual cases of smallpox are still reported from the last few endemic pockets in Ethiopia and Somalia, but the disease has been eradicated in the rest of the world. The NIH and AMA now recommend that people NOT be vaccinated unless they are travelling to one of the endemic areas. At the present time, the death rate from vaccination complications far exceeds the risk of contracting smallpox. The smallpox vaccination is already a thing of the past. --Paul W. ------------------------------ Posted-date: 16-Aug-1982 To: SF-LOVERS @KIRK Subject: PAC MAN and TRON From: PAUL KARGER AT RDVAX Did anyone else catch the image of PAC-MAN in TRON on a screen to which SARK pointed? ------------------------------ Posted-date: 27-Jul-1982 To: SF-LOVERS @KIRK Subject: TRON (minor spoiler) & a comment on Reviewers From: DJLONG AT MERLIN Realising that TRON has already gotten a plethora of reviews, I would like to add mine AND review the reviewers. Personally, I thought TRON was the most innovative movie of the century(short of the Jazz Singer, the first full talkie). SW, TESB & ST showed what computers could do if you let them help with the expensive process of sfx. As everyone must, by now, know, TRON takes that to it's next logical step. TRON came across to me as what 'Revenge of the Jedi' is going to be. Basically, a couple of swashbucklers go to defeat the opressor of the opressed. However, I liked the twists given here. There is a touch of religious tastes here that make you think a bit upon leaving the theater. Although TRON may be a bit weak in it's plot in some places, I thought that it was pretty well done considering the circumstances. For example: 1) TRON's (our hero's) comment when he finds out that Flynn (our hacker) is a User, the Gods of the Programs. "Well, then everything you do is according to a plan!". I think we humans are accustomed to the same thoughts on our diety. 2) When Sark (our enforcer) learns that Flynn is a user, keeping in mind that it is the belief in the Users that he (Sark) and MCP (our evil emperor) are trying to wipe out. "Well.... I mean.... Users..... wrote us..." 3) When RAM (the local expendable renegade) is 'de-rezzing'. "Oh my User... Users users......" 4) Considering the circumstances (i.e. if YOU were zapped into a computer's world), I think that the reactions by all parties (programs & users alike) were viable. Flynn: "On the other side of the screen, it all looks so easy." That left me thinking for a while. What if........? The film has other areas where some thought was actually used for a change. I have never seen a hacker better portrayed than the way Jeff Bridges did Flynn. All of the real hot-shots I know act in that cocky, self-assured manner. The bottom line is - Anyone who has an open mind should be prepared to have their socks knocked off. That brings me to the second part of this review. The Reviewers. I know of very few reviewers that maintain an open mind. When something new comes out, they call it 'chaotic and disjointed'. If it's not new, they call it 'the same tired old story that started with ______'. Nothing seems to please them nowadays. Most notable of the Reviewers is Freedman. >From the submissions to the SFL I can only gather that his like are geared towards the conservative and unchallenging. Sometimes I and many others get the feeling that the Reviewers are really unaware of whats going on. They seem to be sitting in the proverbial ivory tower, ignorant to societies that are constantly changing. Even more infuriating is that in many cases, the plot details that are given are WRONG. That fact is not isolated to just the Reviewers, but many of the independants have been guilty of it (I must admit that the Reviewers do it more often and the mistakes are frequently big ones). ST:TWoK was reviewed by one of our 'pros' as having 'an ultra-galactic bomb that could wipe out the universe'. While that is true, I would like to see the other side of the Genesis device put there. What about it's life-creating possibilities??? Sometimes, I would like to see these guys plucked out of their towers and placed somewhere in the real world and let them see how some people live and what peoples views on entertainment are. Yes, we have a lot of nit-pickers and it's good to see that many people keep their brains engaged when talking about 'bloopers', but there are limits. I would like to see the Reviewers go into a theatre without pre-conceived notions of what films are supposed to be. I don't know why but SF movies are especially prone to bad reviews. It seems to me that the Reviewers have made a deal with Senator William Proxmire ("... the space program is the biggest waste of money in the government"). How do you get to these people? GO SEE THE MOVIE ANYWAY!! I usually value the reviews in SFL more than the 'wire-service' reviews. Does anyone else out there feel this way? Thanx for the forum, David J. P. Long (MERLIN::DJLONG, DJLONG @ MERLIN) End of SF-LOVERS Digest ***********************