ARPAVAX:UNKNOWN:sf-lovers (10/12/82)
>From SFL@SRI-CSL Tue Oct 12 00:09:13 1982
SF-LOVERS Digest 11-Oct-82 Volume 6 : Issue 53
Today's Topics:
Destination Moon, violence, Castenada, Cordwainer Bird, Herbert's
THE WHITE PLAGUE, Brunner's STAND ON ZANZIBAR, shielding in PODKAYNE,
British education, Lem, COURTSHIP RITE, A PERFECT VACUUM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1982 20:30:53 EST (Monday)
From: Mike Meyer <mwm at OKC-UNIX>
Subject: Destination Moon
To: sf-lovers at sri-csl
Cc: mwm at OKC-UNIX
Destination Moon ran on the babble box here about a week ago, and (after the
discussion on sfl) I made sure to catch it. The credits at the begining of the
file listed Heinlein as the sciencetific advisor.
However, one of the key characters (The ex-military man who was the driving
force behind the moon rocket) looked like some of the pictures of Heinlein
from that period. The joes who ran the film didn't bother running the trailing
credits, which carried the actors names. Does somebody know if that was him?
mike
------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1982 21:03:05 EST (Monday)
From: Mike Meyer <mwm at OKC-UNIX>
Subject: Violence In Our Time
To: sf-lovers at sri-csl
Cc: mwm at OKC-UNIX
On the subject of why movies/sf/video games/etc are so violent, there
seem to me to be two (nearly mutually contradictory) explanations:
1: These things are all escapism/entertainment (ESCAPE to something by
Ellison?) and as such feature things that people find
exciting/entertaining. This implies action, and lots of it; most of
this is translated to Violence.
2: People are basically violent.
The first of these is the one that most people would like to believe is
true. I am fairly certain that this is what applies in my case: I tend to
read sf that is either action/adventure (Hard sf, and most of the things
run by Analog), or go looking for things that make me think (Ellison and
some of the rest of the `new wave'). Anything that is neither of these
two (We Who Are About To... & The Lathe of Heaven are good examples: both
of them were slow and had obvious solutions) I tend to avoid.
So we have one example where the first case applies. As a good counterexample
consider the success of Ordinary People. Very little action, and problems
that you can run into in real life without suddenly qualifying as a @B(HERO).
If everybody who went to movies were escaping, I don't think that movie would
have done well at all.
This leaves us with people being basically violent. In support
of this we have the rising crime rate. We can also note that the good old
U. S. of A. has been engaged in armed conflict of some sort or another for
something like 200 years during its 206 year history. As counterpoints we
have vegetarianism. There also seems to be a growing number of people in my
circle of friends who find the thought of consciously doing harm to another
person/being sickening. These people are still in the minority, but the
number is growing.
Conclusions? It seems that both reasons apply. There are people who are
there to avoid something obnoxious in the real world (like the real world),
and people who enjoy violence for the sake of violence. Hopefully, the
second class is in the minority and shrinking, but the evidence doesn't
point that way.
Video games are another matter entirely. I've never met anybody who played
them (as opposed to dropping a quarter now and then for social reasons)
who thought of them as anything but a GAME. By definition, a game involves
competition. In this case, the competition is you vs. the computer, and
these things come across better if there is some object/objects on the screen
that you can be seen to competing against, or fighting.
There are non-violent video games. Check out Actavision's Barnstorming. In
this you are trying to fly a biplane through some set number of barns in
as little time as possible. The `violence' in this game happens when you
hit something (a windmill, a barn or a goose), and the plane bounces a little
and slows down. These things are manifestly to be avoided, so Barnstorming
actually encourages non-violence!
Sorry 'bout the long non-sf discussion.
`And if you hear me sobbing once in a while, it's only because
you've killed me, too...'
mike
------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 82 16:11:45-EDT (Mon)
From: J C Patilla <jcp.jhu@UDel-Relay>
To: sf-lovers at Sri-Csl
cc: jcp.jhu at UDel-Relay
Subject: Castenada, Cordwainer Bird
Via: jhu; 14 Sep 82 3:52-EDT
A couple of issues back there was a flame on Carlos Castenada (sp?),
accusing him of being a fantastical fraud. Those interested should
see two books edited by Richard deMille, "Castenada's Journey" and
"The Don Juan Papers", in which the editor and company do their best
to prove Castenada a fraud. I have only recently read some of the
don Juan books myself, and having a degree in anthropology, I was
amazed to discover that he was passing this stuff off as honest-to-God
*ethnography* - he actually got his PhD for "Journey to Ixtlan",
submitted under a different title.
Re Cordwainer Bird - Ellison goes into his use of this covername in
some detail in the forward to a story in a recent paperback edition
of "Strange Wine".
j c patilla
jcp.jhu@udel-relay
------------------------------
Date: 14 September 1982 1611-EDT
From: Don Provan at CMU-10A
Subject: Carlos Castenada
To: SF-LOVERS at SRI-CSL
i like the Castenada books and believe in a lot that they say.
if i'm so greatly wrong, i'd be interested to hear why. i've
never been into halucinogenic drugs, so blasting me for being
manipulated by a conniving author is not sufficient. *if*
Castenada was manipulating his readers, and *if* he was doing
it just to make money and is a real phoney, that *still* isn't
an argument against the basic philosophy expressed in the books.
as it is, the note in V6 #45 doesn't give any real evidence for
any of these three points.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1982 0123-PDT
From: Dolata at SUMEX-AIM
Subject: Frank Heberts The White Plague
To: sf-lovers at SRI-CSL
Nano-review: so-so.
The White Plague has an interesting plot idea which is almost developed
well. Characters who are almost real. Biochemistry which is almost
correct. And an editor who did almost nothing! The book is almost
worth buying.
The book starts out with an interesting twisting and intertwining of
several peoples lives. The style is very involved, and it makes one
think and puzzle at bits of the first chapter. However, as the book goes
on the style gets simpler and simpler, the intertwining soon restricting
itslef to chapters, then pretty much abandoned altogether.
The book is flat. Considering that all life is facing possible extinction,
very little of that feeling of DESPERATION comes through. Instead, the
book has as much End Of The World feeling as 'Travels With Charley'.
This book suffers from a problem that seems to be plaguing many SF books
these days; either editors who don't edit, or writers who pad. This
book weighs in at 400 pages, of which 200 are story and 200 are baggage.
A good editor could have chopped the dead wood out and produced a much tighter
more 'desparate' story. It is hard to believe that the End Of The World is
near when the characters take a leasurely many week tramp through the woods.
Do other people think that modern SF&F books are tending to be overlong?
If people send to me (dolata@sumex-aim) I'll tally the results and send
it into sf-lovers in a week or so...
Dan
------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1982 2100-PDT
From: Mike Peeler <Admin.MDP at SU-SCORE>
Subject: Re: John Brunner (SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #47)
To: Allen at YALE
cc: SF-LOVERS at SRI-CSL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 24-Aug-82 2101-PDT
Todd,
I am sure you will get a hundred replies to
your remark, "Zanzibar is well known, but never
won any awards or great acclaim," so I will be
brief: since when have we started considering
Hugo Award winners deprived of acclaim?
Cheers,
Mike
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1982 11:03:45-EDT
From: csin!cjh at CCA-UNIX
To: sf-lovers at sri-csl
Subject: shielding in Podkayne
I seem to recall that the statement was that the ordinary structure of
the ship provided the layers of shielding---there were four decks, representing
increasingly lower-class accommodations as you went inward, and each deck
flooring had to be sufficiently substantial (in order to support herds of
people at up to one G) that it incidentally provided the necessary radiation
shielding. So your description, while more economical than four layers on
the outside, would still require more material than Heinlein describes---
and hence would probably be thoroughly uneconomical since the ship travels
in continuous-acceleration "orbits" and changes spin to match the gravity
of the next port of call (yes, I know the spin should be gyro-stored, but
you're going to have significant inefficiencies in such a system). Speaking
of ship spinning, did you notice that they stopped spinning the ship to
dock? This strikes me as a bad idea, unless you really want to be able to
bring in peers and peons by difference entrances. . . .
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 82 15:38:55-EDT (Tue)
From: David Axler <axler.upenn@UDel-Relay>
To: sf-lovers at Sri-Csl
Subject: Comments on Vol 6, #s 44-47
Via: UPenn; 14 Sep 82 19:44-EDT
1) British Education (per hjjh@utexas-11)
A co-worker of mine who was once an Oxford don pointed out several years
back that one of the biggest distinctions between the US and UK educational
systems is the expectation that, no matter what one's field might be, one's
college education is almost totally focused on one's major -- all the liberal
arts courses and the "broadening" that the average American college student
is forced into via electives, sub-majors, and similar mechanisms don't exist.
Instead, the British student has had his or her breadth supplied at the high
school level, where it belongs.
2) "Destination Moon" (per Griffin @ sumex-aim)
At the L-5 meetings in April, where Heinlein was a Guest of Honor, the
film "Destination Moon" was shown several times to commemorate Heinlein's
part in its making, which was not as technical advisor, but rather as writer.
One can see many points in the flick where RAH drew almost directly from his
own stories, esp. "The Man Who Sold the Moon."
3) Stanislav Lem (re many assorted entries)
Overall, I think that Lem has been over-rated, primarily as a result of his
critical reception. When was the last time you saw a "standard" sf or fantasy
writer given front-page treatment in the NY Times? As several folks have noted,
how good Lem seems is very dependent on his translator; however, since he is,
I'm told, fairly fluent in English himself, I'm minded to wonder why he doesn't
take the time to check out the translations himself.
The Continental writer who, to my mind, makes Lem pale in comparison is
Italo Calvino. Often, their books deal with similar themes, but Calvino's work
(or, at least, his translations) are far more readable. I especially recommend
his latest piece of fiction, "If On a Winter's Night A Traveller...", in which
the classic them of works within works within works within.... gets a superb
treatment. In some ways, Calvino reminds me of Borges, in part because they
both have an interest in the occult and/or mystic, but Calvino writes in a
manner far less diffuse than Borges.
4) Casteneda & Fantasy (re decvax!utzoo!watmath!watarts!geo)
Ever since Casteneda's first book appeared, there has been a good bit of
controversy within the anthropological realms as to what his truth level really
might be. There have been a number of articles defending his work as good,
honest field work, but there have also been many anthropologists who think that
his books are pure fiction. They don't mind the fictionalization, but they do
resent his claims of academic credentials as a mechanism for selling his books.
(By the way, the best spoof of Castenada is to be found on The Firesign
Theatre's album "Everything You Know is Wrong," which also takes on UFO cults,
the Air Force's plans for alien invasions, and Evel Knievel. It may be out
of print, but it's worth finding at your local cutout store.)
5) Violence and the Roadrunner
The last three issues of "National Lampoon" have had an excellent series
dealing with the notion that the Coyote finally gets sufficiently fed up with
his failures that he sues the Acme Products Corp. (suppliers of all the items
that never catch the bird) on assorted counts. The legal machinations on both
sides ring all too true. Whether you're on the side of the Roadrunner, or that
of Wile E., you should look this one up.
6) Courtship Rite (re Walker @CMU-10a)
I talked briefly w/Kingsbury at Chicon, and he commented that the serial
version of the story was over 20K words shorter than the bookstore version,
but that he got to do the trimming, so there was some control over what was
lost. He agrees with me that the cover does not accurately depict the scene
it was intended to represent, and that the tattooing has no relationship what-
soever to that described in the book. In fact, the artist originally didn't
want to do tattoos on the bodies at all!
Unlike many authors (tho' this may change as time goes on), Kingsbury
actively seeks contact w/fans at conventions. He even goes so far as to throw
his own open parties! Certainly a far cry from those who hole up in the SFWA
suite. . . but such is life.
7) John Brunner (re N.NELSON@SU-lots)
John Brunner wrote three novels in the same world-scenario. The third
(your article mentions the first two -- Stand on Zanzibar and The Jagged Orbit)
was The Sheep Look Up. It didn't get quite the acclaim of the other two, for
a number of reasons (all wrong, I dare say).
The key factor was that Stand on Zanzibar was, to many sf readers, a bold
and daring experiment in writing style. (That, of course, is because few of
them recognized that Brunner was, quite intentionally, adapting the style of
John dos Passos [q.v., U.S.A.] to science fiction.) I suspect that it was
style, rather than quality, which won this book the Hugo. (Note: I'm NOT
knocking the book; it's one of my favorites on both style and quality.) When
Jagged Orbit appeared about eighteen months later, the newness of what he was
doing had worn off, and the fans didn't respond as positively. When The Sheep
Look Up (which deals extensively with the problems of pollution and industry in
the future Brunner had posited) came out, the style was old hat and interest
had waned. (It might even be the case that many fans resented books that
demanded a bit of thought during the reading process, but perchance I'm too
snide.)
One key feature in Stand on Zanzibar was the coming-to-awareness of the
giant computer, Shalmanesar (sp?). Curiously, a fairly recent academic book
from MIT Press (I don't recall the precise title, but it's something on the
order of "The Cybernetic Intelligence in Science Fiction," by Patricia
Warringer) which does note later works by Brunner on this theme fails to even
consider this aspect of SoZ, focusing instead on Asimov's positronic brains
and Three Laws. It's work like this that makes me suspect my fellow academics
should be kept away from sf, for their own safety.
Well, enough for now . . .time to read the next few issues, which just arrived.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1982 8:19:25 EDT (Sunday)
From: Andrew Malis <malis at BBN-UNIX>
Subject: A perfect Vacuum
To: sf-lovers@sri-csl
Cc: malis at BBN-UNIX, ucbvax!sdcsvax!sdchema!donn@Berkeley
I have also always wanted to get A Perfect Vacuum, especially
after having read excerpts of it in The New Yorker. It is a
collection of ridiculously pompous "scholarly" reviews of
non-existent books, and the "reviews" that I read in New Yorker
were absolutely wonderful. Well, I was on a trip to Europe this
summer, and in an English bookstore in Vienna (Shakespeare and
Co.), I found a British trade paperback that was a collection of
Solaris, The Chain of Chance, and A Perfect Vacuum. Since I
didn't previously own any of the three, this was absolutely
perfect, and I snapped it right up. If you want to order the
book from your local store, the book is a King Penguin, published
in Britain by Penguin Books, 625 Madison Ave, New York, NY 10022,
and was first printed in 1981. The ISBN number is 0 14 00.5539 8,
and the suggested price is 3.95 pounds, or $9.95 Canadian.
The translations are by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox for
Solaris, Louis Iribarne for The Chain of Chance, and Michael
Kandel for A Perfect Vacuum. I don't know if these are the same
translators for the American editions or not.
If you like imaginary literary criticism, then you'll LOVE
Vladimir Nobokov's Pale Fire, which contains the same sort of
review of a non-existent epic poem, and is absolutely hilarious,
especially if you suffered through the real thing in high school
or college.
Andy Malis
------------------------------
Date: 12 September 1982 14:42-EDT
From: John G. Aspinall <JGA at MIT-MC>
Subject: Sequel to Brunner's Zanzibar
To: Allen at YALE
cc: SF-LOVERS at MIT-MC
According to the cover blurb, "The Sheep Look Up" is a sequel to
"Stand on Zanzibar". It is not an obvious sequel; it does not contain
the same set of characters etc., but it certainly could take place in
the same universe, a few years later.
Re your comments about "Jagged Orbit" - I have always regarded that as
a good but imperfect stab at what he finally covered much better in
"Shockwave Rider".
I've read most things by Brunner that I could get a hand on - I don't
have my collection handy, but those that come to mind include :
Stand on Zanzibar - highly recommended
The Shockwave Rider - ditto
The Sheep Look Up - well worth the read, but not first rank
The Jagged Orbit - ditto
The Infinitive of Go - a novelty - Brunner discovers hackers' language
The Dreaming Earth - read 'em at the laundromat, but don't break a
Age of Miracles - date to do so.
several others
John Aspinall
End of SF-LOVERS Digest
***********************ARPAVAX:UNKNOWN:sf-lovers (10/12/82)
>From SFL@SRI-CSL Mon Oct 11 13:38:07 1982
SF-LOVERS Digest 11-Oct-82 Volume 6 : Issue 53
Today's Topics:
Finding hard to get SF, ET, Bladerunner, Jedi, Tron, Haldeman's
WORLDS, Niven & Barnes' DREAM PARK, Farmer's A BARNSTORMER IN OZ
Hogan's VOYAGE FROM YESTERYEAR
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Aug 1982 2318-EDT
From: Reed B. Powell <POWELL at DEC-MARLBORO>
To: sf-lovers at SRI-CSL
DTN: 231-4261
Mail-Stop: MRO2-4/D3
Subject: Finding Hard to Get SF Volumes
There have been a few requests of late for information on those
hard to find SF oldies. An excellant source is ZIESING BROTHERS,
located in Willimantic CT. Their complete address is:
Ziesing Brothers
768 Main Street
Willimantic, CT 06226
c/o Mark
(203)423-5836
The proprietor (Mark) publishes a quarterly listing of their
volumes, which include hardbacks, softbacks, paperbacks,
first printings, signed volumes, collector's editions, etc.
A large selection of British printings (including EE DOC Smith)
is also stocked. The quickest route to finding a specific volume
is to call mark and ask him to hunt it down for you.
-reed
------------------------------
Date: 20 Aug 82 11:22:24-EDT (Fri)
From: David Axler <axler.upenn@UDel-Relay>
To: sf-lovers at Sri-Csl
Subject: On Obtaining Hard-to-Find Books of the European Variety
Via: UPenn; 20 Aug 82 21:47-EDT
Though many of the U.S. and Canadian mail-order and walk-in sf
bookstores do carry some amount of material by European writers (esp.
British), the brunt of such books are American editions, usually
issued several years after the original publication. This can prove
frustrating, especially in the case of series books (e.g., Moorcock's
Jerry Cornelius tetralogy, the last book of which didn't get released
here for five years after its British printing, and when it did get
out, it was only available in an omnibus edition with the other three
in one binding -- a waste of money if you already had 'em).
I've developed a system which, though it does take a bit of my
time, gets around these problems [some of which are due, of course, to
problems with international copyright laws, while others can be blamed
on lazy agents]. The first step is to determine what authors one is
interested in. This list might well include Americans, as some books
that are out of print here are still in European publication
(sometimes in English, sometimes not...).
Next, I head for the nearest major library's Reference room, and
get out the most recent edition of British Books in Print and its
monthly update magazine. I look up each author and, when I find a
title that I'm interested in, I note the crucial facts: publisher,
publication date, hard/paper back, and, most important of all, the
ISBN.
Now, there are other sources of listings for books in foreign
languages, but since I'm insufficiently competent to read 'em, I
ignore them. Those who are fluent, though, might find that
translations of their favorite authors take on a new meaning.
Once I've got all this information, I send off an order to
England's best all-around bookstore, B. H. Blackwell's in Oxford.
[Yes, there are some good all-sf stores in the U.K., but Blackwell's
has several advantages . . .] I've had an account with them for about
ten years, which allows me to pay for books in US currency at their
New York bank; they bill about every three months, with no interest,
or one can pay each shipping invoice as it comes. If one doesn't have
an account, they will accept Mastercard or Visa. If you have an
address at an academic institution, as I do, you're also eligible to
use their private airfreight service -- they fly the books to the US,
and then mail them book rate. If not, they will ship by boat or air,
as you request. Unlike a lot of small shops, they impose no fee on
any special orders; if they don't have a book, they will attempt to
get it ASAP.
By the way, with the pound currently worth less than two bucks,
this is an excellent time to be buying books from Britain. Another
advantage is that the British publishers generally do better work than
their American counterparts: cover art is often better, and bindings
last longer.
Once you've become a regular customer at Blackwell's, you can
open your own account. This allows you to regularly receive any or
all of the fifty or so catalogues they issue during the course of a
year, covering such topics as Fiction, Science & Mathematics, Art,
Music, &c. They're an incredibly massive operation (five different
stores along an Oxford block: Children's ; Paperback; Music; Arts; and
main [which includes what Guinness describes as the largest single
book sales room -- over three miles of bookshelves), and can get stuff
from almost anywhere with no hassle.
Their address is simply Blackwells, Broad Street, Oxford OX1 3BQ, England.
------------------------------
From: LDPVAX::GOLD::HENRY 17-AUG-1982 08:09
To: LDP::KIRK::SF_LOVERS
I just saw ET for the first time. I think the movie was
great. Any flaws I saw at the time were far outwieghed by
the way the movie was put together. In past issues of the digest,
comments were made about ET's attraction to Elliot's mother.
ET is able to communicate thru the use of emotions and feelings.
ET is feeling the same affection for Elliot's mother as Elliot
does. Others comments I have read deal with the way in which the
medical team handled ET's "heart attack". They acted as any other
medical team would have acted in the same situation, they did what
they have been trained to do. The same can be said for the rest of
the Establishment in the movie, right or wrong, they carried out
their duties.
Just prior to seeing ET, I heard someone talking about how
companies pay to have their products featured in movies. I understand
that Reeces (sp?) Pieces are very difficult to get because of the
great demand since ET was released. I am sure Ma Bell felt having their
long distance commercial featured wouldn't hurt and who could forget
ET and Coors. I'm sure Elliot won't.
I have a question I hope someone can answer. In the first Star
Wars movie, there was a difference in the introduction between the
first time I saw it and the fifth time, other than changing the
Star Wars title, was there another change?
Bill
------------------------------
Posted-date: 23-Aug-1982
To: SF-LOVERS KIRK*
Subject: The Revenge of the Jedi
From: AL LEHOTSKY AT METOO
I went to see Star Wars over the weekend again. They are now showing
previews for ROTJ. It looks like we've got something to really look
forward to. Since the whole preview lasts about 30 seconds, it's tough
to give any detailed impressions, but as a minor piece of "intelligence",
Han Solo recovers from the carbon freezing chamber. As rumored, there are
desert-planet scenes (I don't think that it's Tatooine..) and some beings
that are reminiscent of Jawas (but definitely NOT the same culture) as the
sand-crawler crowd.
Finally, the claim was "coming next summer to a theater in a galaxy near
you". Does this mean that the release date won't be 5-21-83?
------------------------------
Subject: Blade Runner Anachronism (non-spoiler)
From: PAUL WINALSKI AT METOO
I think that Deckerd having a smallpox vaccination scar is a true anachronism,
if he's supposed to have been born in the late 1980's. Sporadic individual
cases of smallpox are still reported from the last few endemic pockets in
Ethiopia and Somalia, but the disease has been eradicated in the rest of the
world. The NIH and AMA now recommend that people NOT be vaccinated unless
they are travelling to one of the endemic areas. At the present time, the
death rate from vaccination complications far exceeds the risk of contracting
smallpox. The smallpox vaccination is already a thing of the past.
--Paul W.
------------------------------
Posted-date: 16-Aug-1982
To: SF-LOVERS @KIRK
Subject: PAC MAN and TRON
From: PAUL KARGER AT RDVAX AT PBSVAX at KRYPTN
Did anyone else catch the image of PAC-MAN in TRON on a screen to which
SARK pointed?
------------------------------
*** SPOILER, the following review of Joe Haldeman's WORLDS reveals ***
*** information you may not want to know if you plan to read the book. ***
Posted-date: 22-Aug-1982
To: SF-LOVERS @KIRK
Subject: "Worlds"
From: STEVE LIONEL AT STAR
It's the year 2084, and sections of the United States have seceded and
formed their own countries. One example is Nevada, where anything is
legal. Enter our heroine, young, pretty and intelligent. She gets
mixed up in with some revolutionaries, gets kidnapped and raped, and
tries to get home while the whole world is battling things out with
nuclear weapons.
"Oh," you say, "that's Heinlein's newest book Friday." Well, it's not.
Instead what we have here is Joe (Forever War, Mindbridge) Haldeman's
newest book "Worlds" ($2.50, Timescape paperback). I first picked up
Worlds last spring just after reading Friday, and it literally BEGS to
be compared to RAH's latest. Luckily for "Worlds", it wins. But don't
mlet my introduction make you think that the books are look-alikes, for
they aren't. It's just that some of the plot elements are very similar.
Ok, lets start over. "Worlds" is the story of Marianne O'Hara, a
resident of New New York, one of many "Worlds" orbiting a decaying
Earth. New New, as it's known to its residents, is the largest of the
Worlds, and is chiefly known for its exporting of foamsteel and
importing of tourists. Some, such as Bellcom and Skyfac (!) were, like
New New, built by corporations looking to make a buck. Others are true
colonies and some are even religious retreats.
Marianne, because of her scholastic excellence, wins the rare
opportunity to continue her education on Earth. She goes to (Old) New
York, and makes friends with a poet named Benny. Marianne and Benny
soon get recruited into an organization of revolutionaries who are much
more sinister than they let on to the pair. To Marianne, it's somewhat
of a "project"; she's willing to do harmless investigation for the
group but not get involved in anything serious. Benny, though, learns
what the group is really up to and gets in trouble for it.
While this is going on, New New has just discovered carbonaceous
compounds on the Moon. Until now, the Worlds have been dependent on
Earth to supply organic matter; in return, Earth buys satellite-beamed
power and minerals. If the Worlds no longer needed Earth to survive,
then Earth could no longer be guaranteed of the power it needs to
survive. (Sounds reminiscent of the conflict between Earth and Luna in
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress".) Anyway, the Earth governments decide to
raise the price of deuterium, which powers New New's ships, without
letting New New raise the price of its exports. In return, New New
shuts off its power satellite. Things start getting messy.
Meanwhile, Marianne gets kidnapped, apparently just because she has
become the most prominent Worlds citizen on Earth. (Just why she is
prominent is a fascinating detail.) Yes, she does indeed get raped by
her captors, but she doesn't "enjoy" it as much as Friday seemed to.
Will she be able to get back to New New before Earth blows itself up in
aggravation? What about the lovers she has on Earth? It's a "can't put
it down" type of story. I loved it.
The best news is that "Worlds" is labelled as "Beginning a Major SF
Trilogy". Now I recall someone saying in these pages (?) that such a
phrase was to doom a story to failure, but not in this case (and not in
the case of John Sladek's "Roderick", which I mentioned last April.)
"Worlds" is superbly crafted, equal to or better than Haldeman's
previous works, and I eagerly anticipate reading future volumes in this
series.
Steve Lionel
------------------------------
*** SPOILER, the following review of Farmer's A BARNSTORMER IN OZ reveals ***
*** information you may not want to know if you plan to read the book. ***
Posted-date: 22-Aug-1982
To: SF-LOVERS @KIRK
Subject: "A Barnstormer in Oz"
From: STEVE LIONEL AT STAR
Philip Jose Farmer seems to spend a lot of his time writing stories
around characters that someone else created. This is not to say that he
isn't creative, since he adds quite a bit of his own talent in the
bargain. With "A Barnstormer in Oz" ($5.95, Berkely trade paperback),
Farmer brings us the story of Hank Stover, a barnstorming pilot in the
year 1923. Hank's mother is the Dorothy of the L. Frank Baum "Oz"
tales, although Baum mangled Dorothy's true adventures into a successful
children's book. Hank, therefore, is not really too surprised when he
files into an emerald-colored cloud, (accidentally produced by a Signal
Corps experiment in power transmission), and lands in Quadlingland, Oz.
Hank quickly joins forces with Queen Glinda to help her in her fight
against the evil witch Erakna, who took over as Queen of the Gillikins
when Helwedo, the Witch of the North, died suddenly. As Farmer tells
it, Oz is not really as peaceful as Baum would have us believe. Except
for "The Wizard of Oz", Dorothy's adventure, the remainder of the Oz
books were almost entirely fiction. Even "Wizard" glossed over things
and did not tell the truth about all that occurred.
Soon, though, trouble on another front emerges. The U.S. Army tries to
invade Quadlingland through the gate they have created. Glinda quickly
subdues the first force, but she fears, and rightly so, that the Army
will keep trying until they kill off everyone in Oz. Hank is thus torn
between his loyalty as an American and his love for Glinda.
Using his Curtiss JN-4H (Jenny) biplane, Hank rounds up the Scarecrow
and the Tin Woodman, bith Kings of their respective territories.
Together, the plan the attack against Erakna. Along the way, Hank
reasons out some of the fallacies that Baum put in his books, such as
the fact that the Tin Woodman couldn't have rusted so fast simply
because tin doesn't rust like that! There's lots more which I would
probably enjoy even better if I had ever read any of the Oz books.
Farmer's Oz, unlike Baum's, has sex, birth, death and crime. Having Oz
seem more realistic adds to the enjoyment of the tale. Magic, though it
indeed exists, is not omnipotent. Therefore, Hank really can make a
difference in the outcome.
I enjoyed "Barnstormer" a great deal, and will now probably go out and
start buying Baum's books. I feel pretty sure that any Oz fan will be
delighted by "Barnstormer", and that neophytes who, like me, have only
seen the movie, will be equally enthralled. I highly recommend it.
Steve Lionel
------------------------------
*** SPOILER, the following review of Hogan's VOYAGE FROM YESTERYEAR ***
*** reveals information you may not want to know before reading the book. ***
Posted-date: 25-Aug-1982
To: SF-LOVERS @KIRK
Subject: James P. Hogan/VOYAGE FROM YESTERYEAR
From: SCHOFIELD AT MERLIN
I just finished reading VOYAGE FROM YESTERYEAR (the first
Hogan book I've ever read). I found it to be one of the most
interesting and enjoyable books I've read in awhile. Hogan manages to
integrate a basically hard-sf style with a sharp eye (and pen) for the
foolishness of the human condition.
The book centers around the first inter-stellar colony from
Earth set in (you guessed it!) the Alpha Centauri system. Circa 2020,
a ship left Earth bound for Centauri. It originally had been planned
as a robot probe but when the people in charge of the project saw how
things were going on Earth they though it would be a good idea (and it
was) to equip the ship to handle people. Of course, since the ship was
already designed and in the initial production stages, the only way to
do this was...(any guesses?) ...RIGHT!!! Encode some 'puters with
genetic info and sythesize the children when the ship arrived! The
children were raised with robot nannies programmed to teach the
children only facts and to allow them to devise their own
thought-patterns, society, economy etc. Free from all the ingrained
prejudices and thought-patterns from Old Earth, they developed a
society which was so radically different and so incredibly good that
it shakes one's faith in the idiocy of human nature.
However, just when you thought that we humans are good for
something after all, enter the second generation emmigrants from
Earth. World War III has taken place on Earth, and out of the ashes
rose the United States of the New Order, along with European and
Asiatic power blocs. The U.S. has sent out a generation ship to
reassert it's lawful and God-given sovereignty over the wayward
heathens of Chiron (the new name of the planet).Paraphrase:"After all,
they are human, the Bishop SAYS they have souls, but what kind of
people can they be after being raised by robots?" Answer:
"INTELLIGENT!!!!"
What follows is a refreshing insight into the mores and taboos
of society as well as the evolution of society in coming to terms with
high technology. The story is made all the more interesting because it
comes from an unexpected quarter...the "hard-sf" writer.
If this story is indicative of Hogan's style, if so would
someone please inform me through the list, I am very anxious to read
more from him.
Rick Schofield
------------------------------
*** SPOILER, the following review of Niven & Barne DREAM PARK reveals ***
*** information you may not want to know before reading the book. ***
Date: 14 Aug 82 9:13:33-PST (Sat)
From: Tim Shimeall <tim.uci@UDel-Relay>
To: sfl at Sri-Csl
Subject: DREAM PARK (Spoiler)
Via: UCI; 14 Aug 82 19:26-EDT
Kindly allow me to take issue with some of the opinions expressed on the
book 'DREAM PARK', by Larry Niven and Steven Barnes.
I agree, very much with the gentleman who noted that you can tell who
is going to be killed by the deapth of description of the characters,
except for those who are killed in the final scene.
HOWEVER
I think this is one of the best DND/Quest books to come out in a LONG
time. Its FAR better than Norton's book on Blackhawk. I Definately
recommend that those interested in SF/DND go out and buy/borrow/read a
copy.
The ending is not a terrible suprise. Given the DND/Quest theme, the
authors have a reason for each character that they present. Each
character serves a role in leading to the ending. Up until the final
pages, where all is made clear, the role of Skip, the psychologist, is
uncertain. He does NOT contribute anything, until his role as the
ultimate villan is exposed. This sticks out like a sore thumb on a
reread of the book. Also, I felt that the ending was fairly well
foreshadowed.
By the way, did anyone notice how subtley Niven and Barnes worked in
references to other works of fiction into this book? (Does any get a
clue from this knife? Well, Its obsidian. What good is a glass
dagger? ) I counted 28 references, but I'm sure a missed a LOT of
them.
Tim Shimeall
Tim.UCI at UDEL-RELAY
End of SF-LOVERS Digest
***********************ARPAVAX:UNKNOWN:sf-lovers (10/21/82)
>From SFL@SRI-CSL Tue Oct 12 01:16:15 1982
SF-LOVERS Digest 11-Oct-82 Volume 6 : Issue 53
Today's Topics:
Destination Moon, violence, Castenada, Cordwainer Bird, Herbert's
THE WHITE PLAGUE, Brunner's STAND ON ZANZIBAR, shielding in PODKAYNE,
British education, Lem, COURTSHIP RITE, A PERFECT VACUUM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1982 20:30:53 EST (Monday)
From: Mike Meyer <mwm at OKC-UNIX>
Subject: Destination Moon
To: sf-lovers at sri-csl
Cc: mwm at OKC-UNIX
Destination Moon ran on the babble box here about a week ago, and (after the
discussion on sfl) I made sure to catch it. The credits at the begining of the
file listed Heinlein as the sciencetific advisor.
However, one of the key characters (The ex-military man who was the driving
force behind the moon rocket) looked like some of the pictures of Heinlein
from that period. The joes who ran the film didn't bother running the trailing
credits, which carried the actors names. Does somebody know if that was him?
mike
------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1982 21:03:05 EST (Monday)
From: Mike Meyer <mwm at OKC-UNIX>
Subject: Violence In Our Time
To: sf-lovers at sri-csl
Cc: mwm at OKC-UNIX
On the subject of why movies/sf/video games/etc are so violent, there
seem to me to be two (nearly mutually contradictory) explanations:
1: These things are all escapism/entertainment (ESCAPE to something by
Ellison?) and as such feature things that people find
exciting/entertaining. This implies action, and lots of it; most of
this is translated to Violence.
2: People are basically violent.
The first of these is the one that most people would like to believe is
true. I am fairly certain that this is what applies in my case: I tend to
read sf that is either action/adventure (Hard sf, and most of the things
run by Analog), or go looking for things that make me think (Ellison and
some of the rest of the `new wave'). Anything that is neither of these
two (We Who Are About To... & The Lathe of Heaven are good examples: both
of them were slow and had obvious solutions) I tend to avoid.
So we have one example where the first case applies. As a good counterexample
consider the success of Ordinary People. Very little action, and problems
that you can run into in real life without suddenly qualifying as a @B(HERO).
If everybody who went to movies were escaping, I don't think that movie would
have done well at all.
This leaves us with people being basically violent. In support
of this we have the rising crime rate. We can also note that the good old
U. S. of A. has been engaged in armed conflict of some sort or another for
something like 200 years during its 206 year history. As counterpoints we
have vegetarianism. There also seems to be a growing number of people in my
circle of friends who find the thought of consciously doing harm to another
person/being sickening. These people are still in the minority, but the
number is growing.
Conclusions? It seems that both reasons apply. There are people who are
there to avoid something obnoxious in the real world (like the real world),
and people who enjoy violence for the sake of violence. Hopefully, the
second class is in the minority and shrinking, but the evidence doesn't
point that way.
Video games are another matter entirely. I've never met anybody who played
them (as opposed to dropping a quarter now and then for social reasons)
who thought of them as anything but a GAME. By definition, a game involves
competition. In this case, the competition is you vs. the computer, and
these things come across better if there is some object/objects on the screen
that you can be seen to competing against, or fighting.
There are non-violent video games. Check out Actavision's Barnstorming. In
this you are trying to fly a biplane through some set number of barns in
as little time as possible. The `violence' in this game happens when you
hit something (a windmill, a barn or a goose), and the plane bounces a little
and slows down. These things are manifestly to be avoided, so Barnstorming
actually encourages non-violence!
Sorry 'bout the long non-sf discussion.
`And if you hear me sobbing once in a while, it's only because
you've killed me, too...'
mike
------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 82 16:11:45-EDT (Mon)
From: J C Patilla <jcp.jhu@UDel-Relay>
To: sf-lovers at Sri-Csl
cc: jcp.jhu at UDel-Relay
Subject: Castenada, Cordwainer Bird
Via: jhu; 14 Sep 82 3:52-EDT
A couple of issues back there was a flame on Carlos Castenada (sp?),
accusing him of being a fantastical fraud. Those interested should
see two books edited by Richard deMille, "Castenada's Journey" and
"The Don Juan Papers", in which the editor and company do their best
to prove Castenada a fraud. I have only recently read some of the
don Juan books myself, and having a degree in anthropology, I was
amazed to discover that he was passing this stuff off as honest-to-God
*ethnography* - he actually got his PhD for "Journey to Ixtlan",
submitted under a different title.
Re Cordwainer Bird - Ellison goes into his use of this covername in
some detail in the forward to a story in a recent paperback edition
of "Strange Wine".
j c patilla
jcp.jhu@udel-relay
------------------------------
Date: 14 September 1982 1611-EDT
From: Don Provan at CMU-10A
Subject: Carlos Castenada
To: SF-LOVERS at SRI-CSL
i like the Castenada books and believe in a lot that they say.
if i'm so greatly wrong, i'd be interested to hear why. i've
never been into halucinogenic drugs, so blasting me for being
manipulated by a conniving author is not sufficient. *if*
Castenada was manipulating his readers, and *if* he was doing
it just to make money and is a real phoney, that *still* isn't
an argument against the basic philosophy expressed in the books.
as it is, the note in V6 #45 doesn't give any real evidence for
any of these three points.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1982 0123-PDT
From: Dolata at SUMEX-AIM
Subject: Frank Heberts The White Plague
To: sf-lovers at SRI-CSL
Nano-review: so-so.
The White Plague has an interesting plot idea which is almost developed
well. Characters who are almost real. Biochemistry which is almost
correct. And an editor who did almost nothing! The book is almost
worth buying.
The book starts out with an interesting twisting and intertwining of
several peoples lives. The style is very involved, and it makes one
think and puzzle at bits of the first chapter. However, as the book goes
on the style gets simpler and simpler, the intertwining soon restricting
itslef to chapters, then pretty much abandoned altogether.
The book is flat. Considering that all life is facing possible extinction,
very little of that feeling of DESPERATION comes through. Instead, the
book has as much End Of The World feeling as 'Travels With Charley'.
This book suffers from a problem that seems to be plaguing many SF books
these days; either editors who don't edit, or writers who pad. This
book weighs in at 400 pages, of which 200 are story and 200 are baggage.
A good editor could have chopped the dead wood out and produced a much tighter
more 'desparate' story. It is hard to believe that the End Of The World is
near when the characters take a leasurely many week tramp through the woods.
Do other people think that modern SF&F books are tending to be overlong?
If people send to me (dolata@sumex-aim) I'll tally the results and send
it into sf-lovers in a week or so...
Dan
------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1982 2100-PDT
From: Mike Peeler <Admin.MDP at SU-SCORE>
Subject: Re: John Brunner (SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #47)
To: Allen at YALE
cc: SF-LOVERS at SRI-CSL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 24-Aug-82 2101-PDT
Todd,
I am sure you will get a hundred replies to
your remark, "Zanzibar is well known, but never
won any awards or great acclaim," so I will be
brief: since when have we started considering
Hugo Award winners deprived of acclaim?
Cheers,
Mike
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1982 11:03:45-EDT
From: csin!cjh at CCA-UNIX
To: sf-lovers at sri-csl
Subject: shielding in Podkayne
I seem to recall that the statement was that the ordinary structure of
the ship provided the layers of shielding---there were four decks, representing
increasingly lower-class accommodations as you went inward, and each deck
flooring had to be sufficiently substantial (in order to support herds of
people at up to one G) that it incidentally provided the necessary radiation
shielding. So your description, while more economical than four layers on
the outside, would still require more material than Heinlein describes---
and hence would probably be thoroughly uneconomical since the ship travels
in continuous-acceleration "orbits" and changes spin to match the gravity
of the next port of call (yes, I know the spin should be gyro-stored, but
you're going to have significant inefficiencies in such a system). Speaking
of ship spinning, did you notice that they stopped spinning the ship to
dock? This strikes me as a bad idea, unless you really want to be able to
bring in peers and peons by difference entrances. . . .
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 82 15:38:55-EDT (Tue)
From: David Axler <axler.upenn@UDel-Relay>
To: sf-lovers at Sri-Csl
Subject: Comments on Vol 6, #s 44-47
Via: UPenn; 14 Sep 82 19:44-EDT
1) British Education (per hjjh@utexas-11)
A co-worker of mine who was once an Oxford don pointed out several years
back that one of the biggest distinctions between the US and UK educational
systems is the expectation that, no matter what one's field might be, one's
college education is almost totally focused on one's major -- all the liberal
arts courses and the "broadening" that the average American college student
is forced into via electives, sub-majors, and similar mechanisms don't exist.
Instead, the British student has had his or her breadth supplied at the high
school level, where it belongs.
2) "Destination Moon" (per Griffin @ sumex-aim)
At the L-5 meetings in April, where Heinlein was a Guest of Honor, the
film "Destination Moon" was shown several times to commemorate Heinlein's
part in its making, which was not as technical advisor, but rather as writer.
One can see many points in the flick where RAH drew almost directly from his
own stories, esp. "The Man Who Sold the Moon."
3) Stanislav Lem (re many assorted entries)
Overall, I think that Lem has been over-rated, primarily as a result of his
critical reception. When was the last time you saw a "standard" sf or fantasy
writer given front-page treatment in the NY Times? As several folks have noted,
how good Lem seems is very dependent on his translator; however, since he is,
I'm told, fairly fluent in English himself, I'm minded to wonder why he doesn't
take the time to check out the translations himself.
The Continental writer who, to my mind, makes Lem pale in comparison is
Italo Calvino. Often, their books deal with similar themes, but Calvino's work
(or, at least, his translations) are far more readable. I especially recommend
his latest piece of fiction, "If On a Winter's Night A Traveller...", in which
the classic them of works within works within works within.... gets a superb
treatment. In some ways, Calvino reminds me of Borges, in part because they
both have an interest in the occult and/or mystic, but Calvino writes in a
manner far less diffuse than Borges.
4) Casteneda & Fantasy (re decvax!utzoo!watmath!watarts!geo)
Ever since Casteneda's first book appeared, there has been a good bit of
controversy within the anthropological realms as to what his truth level really
might be. There have been a number of articles defending his work as good,
honest field work, but there have also been many anthropologists who think that
his books are pure fiction. They don't mind the fictionalization, but they do
resent his claims of academic credentials as a mechanism for selling his books.
(By the way, the best spoof of Castenada is to be found on The Firesign
Theatre's album "Everything You Know is Wrong," which also takes on UFO cults,
the Air Force's plans for alien invasions, and Evel Knievel. It may be out
of print, but it's worth finding at your local cutout store.)
5) Violence and the Roadrunner
The last three issues of "National Lampoon" have had an excellent series
dealing with the notion that the Coyote finally gets sufficiently fed up with
his failures that he sues the Acme Products Corp. (suppliers of all the items
that never catch the bird) on assorted counts. The legal machinations on both
sides ring all too true. Whether you're on the side of the Roadrunner, or that
of Wile E., you should look this one up.
6) Courtship Rite (re Walker @CMU-10a)
I talked briefly w/Kingsbury at Chicon, and he commented that the serial
version of the story was over 20K words shorter than the bookstore version,
but that he got to do the trimming, so there was some control over what was
lost. He agrees with me that the cover does not accurately depict the scene
it was intended to represent, and that the tattooing has no relationship what-
soever to that described in the book. In fact, the artist originally didn't
want to do tattoos on the bodies at all!
Unlike many authors (tho' this may change as time goes on), Kingsbury
actively seeks contact w/fans at conventions. He even goes so far as to throw
his own open parties! Certainly a far cry from those who hole up in the SFWA
suite. . . but such is life.
7) John Brunner (re N.NELSON@SU-lots)
John Brunner wrote three novels in the same world-scenario. The third
(your article mentions the first two -- Stand on Zanzibar and The Jagged Orbit)
was The Sheep Look Up. It didn't get quite the acclaim of the other two, for
a number of reasons (all wrong, I dare say).
The key factor was that Stand on Zanzibar was, to many sf readers, a bold
and daring experiment in writing style. (That, of course, is because few of
them recognized that Brunner was, quite intentionally, adapting the style of
John dos Passos [q.v., U.S.A.] to science fiction.) I suspect that it was
style, rather than quality, which won this book the Hugo. (Note: I'm NOT
knocking the book; it's one of my favorites on both style and quality.) When
Jagged Orbit appeared about eighteen months later, the newness of what he was
doing had worn off, and the fans didn't respond as positively. When The Sheep
Look Up (which deals extensively with the problems of pollution and industry in
the future Brunner had posited) came out, the style was old hat and interest
had waned. (It might even be the case that many fans resented books that
demanded a bit of thought during the reading process, but perchance I'm too
snide.)
One key feature in Stand on Zanzibar was the coming-to-awareness of the
giant computer, Shalmanesar (sp?). Curiously, a fairly recent academic book
from MIT Press (I don't recall the precise title, but it's something on the
order of "The Cybernetic Intelligence in Science Fiction," by Patricia
Warringer) which does note later works by Brunner on this theme fails to even
consider this aspect of SoZ, focusing instead on Asimov's positronic brains
and Three Laws. It's work like this that makes me suspect my fellow academics
should be kept away from sf, for their own safety.
Well, enough for now . . .time to read the next few issues, which just arrived.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1982 8:19:25 EDT (Sunday)
From: Andrew Malis <malis at BBN-UNIX>
Subject: A perfect Vacuum
To: sf-lovers@sri-csl
Cc: malis at BBN-UNIX, ucbvax!sdcsvax!sdchema!donn@Berkeley
I have also always wanted to get A Perfect Vacuum, especially
after having read excerpts of it in The New Yorker. It is a
collection of ridiculously pompous "scholarly" reviews of
non-existent books, and the "reviews" that I read in New Yorker
were absolutely wonderful. Well, I was on a trip to Europe this
summer, and in an English bookstore in Vienna (Shakespeare and
Co.), I found a British trade paperback that was a collection of
Solaris, The Chain of Chance, and A Perfect Vacuum. Since I
didn't previously own any of the three, this was absolutely
perfect, and I snapped it right up. If you want to order the
book from your local store, the book is a King Penguin, published
in Britain by Penguin Books, 625 Madison Ave, New York, NY 10022,
and was first printed in 1981. The ISBN number is 0 14 00.5539 8,
and the suggested price is 3.95 pounds, or $9.95 Canadian.
The translations are by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox for
Solaris, Louis Iribarne for The Chain of Chance, and Michael
Kandel for A Perfect Vacuum. I don't know if these are the same
translators for the American editions or not.
If you like imaginary literary criticism, then you'll LOVE
Vladimir Nobokov's Pale Fire, which contains the same sort of
review of a non-existent epic poem, and is absolutely hilarious,
especially if you suffered through the real thing in high school
or college.
Andy Malis
------------------------------
Date: 12 September 1982 14:42-EDT
From: John G. Aspinall <JGA at MIT-MC>
Subject: Sequel to Brunner's Zanzibar
To: Allen at YALE
cc: SF-LOVERS at MIT-MC
According to the cover blurb, "The Sheep Look Up" is a sequel to
"Stand on Zanzibar". It is not an obvious sequel; it does not contain
the same set of characters etc., but it certainly could take place in
the same universe, a few years later.
Re your comments about "Jagged Orbit" - I have always regarded that as
a good but imperfect stab at what he finally covered much better in
"Shockwave Rider".
I've read most things by Brunner that I could get a hand on - I don't
have my collection handy, but those that come to mind include :
Stand on Zanzibar - highly recommended
The Shockwave Rider - ditto
The Sheep Look Up - well worth the read, but not first rank
The Jagged Orbit - ditto
The Infinitive of Go - a novelty - Brunner discovers hackers' language
The Dreaming Earth - read 'em at the laundromat, but don't break a
Age of Miracles - date to do so.
several others
John Aspinall
End of SF-LOVERS Digest
***********************