sf-lovers (12/15/82)
>From SFL@SRI-CSL Mon Dec 13 02:41:19 1982
Reply-To: SF-LOVERS at SRI-CSL
To: SF-LOVERS@SRI-CSL
SF-LOVERS Digest Saturday, 11 Dec 1982 Volume 6 : Issue 103
Today's Topics:
Books/Stories - Vinge True Names and Anderson's The Saturn Game,
Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun, Varley's work
and why are Titan/Wizard tiresome?
Themes - Shrinking, reality alternation
Misc - SF media, decompression, Hitch-Hiker's Guide
to the Net (part 1)
T.V. - Star Trek
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10-Dec-82 15:24:21 PST (Friday)
From: Pettit at PARC-MAXC
Subject: True Names and The Saturn Game
In regard to csin!cjh at CCA-UNIX's statement in V6#99, "I happen to
think that 'True Names' was better than the winner, Anderson's 'The
Saturn Game'; that may reflect my dislike of tSG's subject":
What does csin!cjh see as "tSG's subject"? It seems to me that "True
Names" and "The Saturn Game" had very nearly the SAME subject, to wit,
an extension of the Fantasy Role Playing idea to where the fantasy
world actually feels real to the player (or at least as real as a
dream does to the dreamer). In True Names, the fantasy world was the
way a human experienced direct neural IO linkage with a computer; in
"The Saturn Game" it was the result of genetic and other enhancements
to the imaginative capabilities of people sent on long space missions.
Both stories played off the advantages of this enhanced experience
against the dangers of being unable to respond properly to the real
world while living in the fantasy one. This conflict was the major
theme of "The Saturn Game"; it was a minor one in "True Names", whose
main theme was the implications of machine/human symbiosis.
I too preferred "True Names" to "The Saturn Game", though I liked them
both a lot. My preference is partly because I'm a programmer (not an
astronaut or geologist), and Vinge did a very good job of
capturing/extrapolating the culture of the programmer. I think Vinge
also did a better job than Anderson at capturing the flavor of the FRP
culture, and he was even quite good at representing the police-officer
mentality. The characterization in "The Saturn Game" was weaker. But
my main objection to "The Saturn Game" was that I could never really
suspend my disbelief in the notion that a fantasized ice castle
setting would have more emotional pull than the actual experience of
walking about on Saturn's moon, no matter how altered the imaginations
of the explorers were. In "True Names", the programmers were seated
in consoles, with almost all their sensory input coming from the
computer (near the end, it becomes a sensory overload, in fact), so it
is much easier to believe that the fantasy world could become real
than when it is an entirely internal construct competing with the
astounding and demanding real experience of exploring a beautiful and
dangerous new world.
Anderson probably won the Hugo not for the main theme of his work, but
for the subplot of clever people in dire straits figuring out an
ingenious way to rescue themselves. This plot has been a sure winner
for SF short stories and novelettes ever since Asimov's first
published story, "Marooned Off Vesta". In the same vein, I can recall
a story about a couple "walking" a bubble-tent back to a moon base
after a picnic in the nude, and getting a bad sunburn in the process.
I don't remember the name or author. And one of Varley's stories with
the clinging-mirror-spacesuits had a similar subplot ("Retrograde
Summer", I think it was). How many others can you think of?
-- Teri Pettit at Xerox OSD
------------------------------
Date: 9 Dec 82 22:11-PST
From: mclure at SRI-UNIX
Subject: Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun
I have now twice read the first volume (THE SHADOW OF THE TORTURER) in
a vain attempt to convince myself that it is the beginning of an
earth-shaking effort or "the best SF I've read all year (Le Guin)".
It would appear to be the beginning of just another quest story and
having just finished LORD OF THE RINGS for the first time, I don't
think I can handle yet another of these. Could someone out there who
has read the entire tetralogy and admires it please explain what
he/she thinks is so marvelous about it? Mike "the Monk" Urban, are
you listening? I'll admit that Wolfe handles his language better than
most SF authors I've read but the story itself seems extremely drawn
out and the characters don't catch my fancy. Maybe it's just that I
don't much care for sword and sorcery and quests.
Stuart
------------------------------
Date: 10 Dec 1982 13:34-PST
From: dietz%usc-cse@USC-ECL
Subject: Shrinking
Fritz Leiber's "The Swords of Lankhmar" has Fahfrd (or the Grey
Mouser?) shrink down to rat size. The extra mass was shed at the
time of shrinking, leaving a pool of pinkish tissue. When the effect
wore off the hero absorbed mass from surrounding objects, with amusing
consequences.
------------------------------
Date: 10 Dec 1982 1:52:07 CST (Friday)
From: Mike Meyer <mwm at OKC-UNIX>
Subject: short dump
~= FtG claimed that "SF is the last refuge of the MCP" or some such
(oh, for a real mailer...). I remember seeing somewhere tht SF had the
HIGHEST imply that you would have trouble as a writer. Just look at
Alice Sheldon in all her avatars.
Finally, the Grand Master himself tends to make his female characters
much more intelligent/competent/etc. than his male characters I have
lots to say about the womens movement & ERA, but this isn't the place.
FtG (whoever s/he is) can contact me personally if she wants to hear
it. =~
Paul Fuqua mentioned changing reality via massed believe. He failed
to mention a GOOD story that uses this idea, and a mediocre
novel/movie.
The story is the Amber series by Zelazny, wherein the inhabits of the
`base reality,' Amber, can move at will from one `reality,' or shadow,
by moving, and thinking about what the want the universe to be like.
Good stuff - when Good stuff - but I like reality-warping stories
(probably has something to do with having a warped view or reality...)
The mediocre novel is `The Lathe of Heaven,' by LeGuin. The writing is
up to LeGuin's usuall standard, but the solution is obvious from very
early in the thing.
Almost forgot - Laumer has something using a concept similar to the
Amber trick in `The World Shuffler,' and it's sequel, `The Time
Bender.' This is Laumer with his tongue in his cheek, and I enjoyed it
as much as I do the Retief stories.
Since short stories have been introduced in the time travel topic, I
have to mention the classics:
`All You Zombies' has the most convoluted plot knot of anything I have
ever read. For example, our hero is her own mother and father, and he
inroduced himself to herself.
`By His Bootstraps' is another tale wherein the protagonist meets
himself coming, going, and trying to stop himself from going. This is
also mind-warping stuff.
Both by Heinlein (The Grand Master).
<mike
------------------------------
Date: 10 Dec 1982 2:30:06 CST (Friday)
From: Mike Meyer <mwm at OKC-UNIX>
Subject: Science Fiction Media
I noticed something in a non-big-three media that might be of
interest.
Namely, the discussion in SFL shows an interesting warp. Movies and TV
both have a high concentration of discussion in a small area. Movies
tends to stick be almost entirley Dr. Who/Star Trek, with some
comments on other things. [Of course, there's no mention of my
favorite - Lost In Space - the best sitcom of the bunch.]
Books, on the other hand, tend to wander all over the landscape.
Occasionally, some particular topic will generate a lot of verbiage,
but not to the degree that SW dominates movies.
<mike
------------------------------
Date: 10-Dec-82 9:21:23 PST (Friday)
From: Tou at PARC-MAXC
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #99
If I remember my high school American history correctly, "We the
people of the United States..." is the opening line of the Preamble to
the Constitution. "When in the course of human events..." is the
beginning of the Declaration of Independence. And of course, the
pledge of allegiance begins "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
------------------------------
From: duntemann.wbst
Date: 10-Dec-82 14:15:46 EST
Subject: American History 101...
Come come. "We the People of the United States of America..." could
hardly be the opening line of the Declaration of Independence. Think
about it. (Or don't bother -- The Declaration starts out: "When in
the course of human events..." "We the People..." DOES, in fact,
begin the Constitution.)
Other odd notes:
Does anyone actually HAVE a copy of The Citadel of the
Autarch? I heard it was delayed for some reason.
Time and Again was by Albert Finney. He was the only person I
can imagine who would accurately depict Victorian New York City as the
Ninety Third Circle of Hell and then wax nostalgic about it for
another hundred pages. Dopey, entertaining book.
Open question: I have frequently heard people badmouth
Varley's Wizard/Titan Twothirdology in a general way, but nobody has
ever said specifically what's wrong with it. I have some powerful
difficulties with the book, but I'll bet they don't jive with
everybody else's. Some comments are solicited.
Some of Varley's other notions trouble me as well. I can't
quite cope with the notion of "casual sex change." It took me damned
near twenty five years to make total peace with the sex I was born
with, and I suspect that if I were abruptly placed in the body of a
woman I would nevertheless still think like a man for a great many
years, and perhaps forever, since I think the many subtle
rites-of-passage through puberty are essential in pinning down among
the many layers of the mind the reality of being male or female.
Varley's sex-change stories work because Varley says they work, not
because he convinced me with his evidence.
Final (in all two many ways, perhaps) plea: My arpanet link
through PARC-MAXC evaporates on January 1 because my manager will no
longer pay for it. If someone can contact me privately with info on
how to get at it through other means I would be exceedingly grateful,
otherwise you will hear lots of silence from this boy from now on.
In any event, it's been great good fun...
Jeff Duntemann duntemann.wbst@PARC-MAXC
(716) 427-4886 or 473-2986
------------------------------
Date: 8 Dec 82 16:59:22-PST (Wed)
From: decvax!yale-com!brunix!jah at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: Miscellaneous
Re: explosive decompression
A lot of bullticky has been said about this subject from people
claiming to be informed since they are SCUBA divers. In each of the
messages from these so called experts I've seen gross misstatements
about diving.
The number of dive fatalities from drowning is closer to 90%.
The depth of salt water equal to one atmosphere is 33 feet, not 31.
The amount of pressure to blow a lung is about 4-5 psi, but this
will NOT occur if the airways are kept open (barring certain
complications
I do not wish to go into here). I am no expert on space or
decompression to 0 atmospheres, but I am somewhat expert on SCUBA
diving and dislike seeing all this misinformation being bandied about.
Jim Hendler
NAUI instructor #6622
------------------------------
Date: Friday, 10 Dec 1982 10:17-PST
Subject: Re: Decompression
From: obrien at RAND-UNIX
No one seems to have remembered the fact that the Russians
lost some astronauts to decompression. Their landings are over land
and are automated, so it wasn't till the capsule was opened that they
were found to be dead. I'm not sure if we (the West) ever found out
if the decompression they suffered was "explosive" or gradual, but the
victims reportedly suffered no visible external damage and appeared
outwardly to be peacefully asleep.
------------------------------
Date: 10 Dec 1982 19:50:12-EST
From: David-J-Aronson-H at CMU-EE-AMPERE at CMU-10A
Subject: assorted random thoughts
1) There have been some good stories on reality alterations in Isaac
Asimov's SF Magazine (at least I liked them). There was a series about
a man with the innate ability to "edit events", by making things
"[not] have happened." Very strange. Better was a series of stories
about a "temporal detective," whose job is to patch reality when it's
been tampered with (using a time travel machine which looks like a
garbage can, and has tracers to detect residual energy from previous
tampering). It deals a lot with the inevitable frustration at having
to wipe out better alternative realities, and (more importantly) your
customers not "having hired you" after you patch reality, since there
"never was" a need for it.
2) Now that we know Darth Vader == Dark Father, I can't help wondering
about the Jedi. That sounds like some sort of plural, of some Latin
word like Jedus. Anybody out there know Latin? I sure don't.
3) While we're on the subject of Jedi, I don't recall anybody
mentioning, in the music discussion, "Yoda", by Weird Al Yankovick
(sp?). Surely there must be many Demensions and Dementites on this
list....
4) A comics digest might be a good idea. I'm not into it myself, but I
know a few people here at CMU who would read it regularly.
5) This stuff about explosive decompression and better spacesuits
(like better mouse-traps?) is taking up a lot of space (no pun
intended, oddly enough) both here and in the Space digest. Why don't
we save disk and real space and confirm our suspicions? Take somebody
from death row and let him die for science. ( :-) )
Keep on randomizing, (entropy, entropy, all winds down...)
Dave Aronson
dja@cmu-ee-ampere@cmu-10a
------------------------------
Date: Friday, 10 Dec 1982 09:02:30-PST
From: RHEA::HARDY::GLASSER%Shasta at SU-Score
Subject: Submission (possibly redundant)
I stole the following from the USENET net.jokes newsgroup. I thought
that SFL should see it. I hope that the author does not mind.
Daniel Glasser
[USENET address ...!decvax!sultan!dag
no reliable ARPA address.]
From: decvax!sultan!decvax!genradbo!grkermit!markm
Newsgroups: net.jokes
Hitch Hikers Guide To The Net
Episode 1 - First Meeting
One day, not long after tomorrow, Arnold Lint was busy scrolling
through the seemingly infinite reaches of the Net. All of a sudden the
news stopped with an abrupt thud, followed by the angry message "YOUR
NODE HAS BEEN REDUCED TO A LITTLE BLACK, GREASY SPLOTCH IN MY MEMORY
SPACE!!". No sooner had he assimilated this horrendous event when a
great suction like noise began to eminate from his terminal. "This is
it", he said to himself, "I'm going to die". The screen on his
terminal the imploded and he suddenly found himself sucked into the
terminal . . . . . . . . . . . .
(Arnold Lint regains consciousness, only to find himself in the
company of an odd trio. One of the trio is an apparently normal human
male (named Rod Perfect) and the second is a voluptuos young woman
(named Gillian). The third is also a normal male (named Xaphod
Gronklebox), except for a third, mechanical, arm and a 12" CRT on his
shoulder that keeps scrolling "Pieces of Eight, Pieces of Eight".)
Rod: Evening all! I'm Rod Perfect, awfully rude of you imploding on
us this way, you silly twit.
Arnold Lint: Sorry. Am I dead?
Xaphod: Obviously not, you semi-evolved simian! Are all you
net-landers so stupid. If you were dead would I be talking to
you? I'm Xaphod Gronklebox, the famous inter-net-al criminal
and dog molester - you must have heard of me.
Arnold Lint: Actually, no, I haven't.
Xaphod: Oh well, your loss. I just hijacked this node! It's called
the Infinity, isn't it wild. Just imagine the places we can go
in this baby.
(Rod notices that Arnold's eyes are transfixed on the young woman)
Rod: Her name's Gillian, at least that's what she wants to be called.
Actually, her real name is Gertrude Floogie, but she didnt't like
it, so she changed it.
(Arnold Lint detects a mechanical sound to his right. A robot soon
walks into view)
Robot: My name is Martin. I am sure you will have an
absolutely awful time on this node, I always have.
I do not know why they insist on trying to do
things to change the Net, they can only make it
worse. No matter what happens, some one always
says something stupid and ruins everything. Then
someone else feels obliged to a rebuttal, and on
and on it goes. How awful. Still, what do you
expect from an imperfect Net.
Rod: Martin is a bit, well, depressing.
Xaphod: He's a real downer, man!
Martin: That's right, ridicule me. See what I care. I'm only an
android. Just another example of cruelty in this awful Net.
(********************************************************************
The "Hitch Hikers Guide to the Net" defines cruelty as having to see
constant repetitions of the same salutory comment in more than 20
messages. History shows that a war was fought over the repetition of
the statement "If you don't like my name - push off, signed xxxx"
appearing in 200 messages from the node of Moronicus. Since that
time, any time a salutory message is used more than 20 times,
subsequent violators have their pelvis screwed to a cake stand while
they are forced to watch repeats of "The Gong Show".
********************************************************************)
Arnold Lint: Well, what do we do now?
Xaphod: We're on our way to Netrothea. (The 12" CRT on his
shoulder now starts repeating "Polly want a
sedative, Polly want a sedative") There's supposed
to be all sorts of wild and amazingly great things
in that place!
Rod: Martin, set course for Netrothea!
Martin: All right, but you're not going to like it.
Gillian: What will we find on Netrothea?
Xaphod: Well, there's supposed to be a huge stockpile of data there
that we can sell to the Net for millions.
Arnold Lint: A stockpile of what?
Xaphod: Data! Data! You idiot. Knowledge is power in the Net. All
that data has been accumulating over the centuries. Just imagine the
amazingly amazing philosophical Net-discussions that it stored. I mean,
the Net is the focal point of all wisdom. Just think of all that
smart stuff! Wow!
(********************************************************************
The "Hitch Hikers Guide to the Net" insists that the focal point of
all knowledge in not the Net itself. Rather, it is the fourth stall in
the mens room in Grand Central Station. No one has ever been dumb
enough to waste time disproving this wild claim, so the publishers
avoided some nasty laws suits.
********************************************************************)
Xaphod: We'll have millions! We'll by everything! No, we'll have
billions, trillions, . . . .
(Xaphod begins to shake violently and froth at the mouth, then he
falls over backward. A few seconds later he comes to.)
Xaphod: Well, lets go!
Rod: You all right?
Xaphod: Yah, sure. Just the excitement of new conquests.
Arnold Lint: Looked more like Flamers-syndrome to me.
Xaphod: You should talk, you key-pounding half-wit.
Gillian: If we're going to go, lets go already.
Martin: Do we really have to?
Rod: YES!
(Just as the node starts on it's way, a host of flame-shaped vessels
became visible on the scanners)
Rod: Funny you should mention Flamers-syndrome.
Xaphod: Oh, hell!
Gillian: What are they?
Xaphod: Damn, those are ships belonging the Flamers. They
go after anything, no matter how pointless or
unimportant it is. If they catch us, we could
suffer permanent brain damage, or worse yet - join
the Moral Majority
Arnold Lint: So this it it, we're all going to die!
Martin: I told you that you would like it.
Others: Oh Shut Up!
******************** End Of Part 1 ********************
Will Arnold and his new travelling companions escape the Flamers? Or
will they end up playing rock albums backwards at 66.6 RPM? For the
answers to these, and countless other pointless questions . . . Tune
in next time . . . same Net-time . . . same Net-channel
[Part 2 will appear in tomorrow's digest. --Stuart]
------------------------------
End of SF-LOVERS Digest
***********************