[net.games.frp] No Class System

blk@sri-unix (11/09/82)

I'm working on a new system, and I want to use this newsgroup to work out
ideas.  Any objections?  Interesting mail will go onto the net.

My goal is two-fold;
1)  I want to be able to run the system without refering to books and charts.
	I think that a good system can be simple enough to be detailed in
	a few formulas on the flip side of each character record sheet.
2)  I intend to come closer to the literature and imagery of fantasy worlds
	than to either 'real life' or war-games.  This motivates me to toss
	out character classes and emphasis on statistics.  How many or our
	adventure fantasies include arguments like 		(* ^of^ *)
	"C'mon, be a Cleric.  The party needs at least two." ??
	And I defy anyone to name a single story, legend, etc. where the
	strongest member is determined by a quick poll ("I'm a 16").

I am *not* tossing out the stats - i just want them to feel like statistics
attempting to 'measure' the character instead of characteristics that
 'define' the character.
~v
Who can argue with the richness of that insult used in E.T.- "0 charisma!" ?

Now that i think, there is one other goal.  I want to use a personal computer
as a playing aid; to this end, I want the information on the character
record sheet to be systematic and brief.  Runequest sheets, for example,
would take 2 minutes to make a copy of, and automatic generation would have
to be either absurdly random, complex, or bland.  No offense to RQ, I just
want info that inductively generates a full character instead of 
exhaustively detailing the character.

This is a good place to start.  I want to use the basic statistics on
the character, strength, intelligence, etc., over and over in myriad
combinations.  Ever notice that if Baryshnikov (the famous dancer-sp?)
had a rapier duel with The Hulk, they would be evenly matched?  Both get
an armor class advantage (agility bonus vs. green skin), but how does
a lummox stand a chance against fencing anyone who can leap ten feet in
the air, do a double twist, and land in a perfect defensive posture?
  Or how about those magicians that throw fireballs, charm people, talk
to the dead, and do card tricks?  I always thought that magicians 
specialized.  But not by College, dear Dragonquesters!  According to whar
what they are best at!  Like Spoylsport, the local expert on undoing nasty
spells, or Wimpywon, who weighs 78 pounds but can immobilize brutes and 
other nifty mental tricks.

I suggest that each weapon, spell, skill, etc. be associated with two
of the basic statistics, and each of the general profession with another.
These will help determine rate of advancement, natural ability, expert level
attainable, and so on.
For example:
Billy-boy decides to learn basic Broadsword technique.  He goes to his local
Police Athletic League (or whatever) and studies a while, just kind of 
hanging around the gym and asking questions.  Well, Billy-boy is real
strong, but kind of short.  So he can handle the Broadsword, but it is
unwieldy for him.  Broadsword is associated with size and strength.
Billy-boy thinks that real men always use a Broadsword, so he sticks with
it.  One of the real men down at the gym decides to call him out, to
humiliate the boy.  Another of Billy-boy's virtues, however, is that he
is highly perceptive.  After being flattened a few times by the wooden
practice sword, very bruised and a little bloody, he realizes that this
Mr. Macho he is battling always looks before he swings, thereby giving 
away his intended move.  In fact, the profession of Fighting is associated
with Perception, not Strength.  Billy-boy ends up putting up a surprisingly
respectable fight, and is befriended by an old salt who recommends the
Saber to Billy-boy.  The saber is associated with Strength and Agility,
more to Billy-boy's liking.  
As a formula:
starting rank  =  associated stats + Perception - average
		  ---------------------------------------
				   3

If we go on a scale of 1-10  (sensible, no?)

Billy-boy
Perception = 8		Size = 4	Strength = 7
Agility = 6		Intell = 5	etc.

so starting rank with Broadsword (size, stength)
	= 4 + 7 + 8 - 15	(15 is the average)
	  --------------
		3
	
	= rank of 1		(better than 0!)

while with Saber (agility, strength)
	= 6 + 7 + 8 - 15
	  --------------
		3

	= rank of 2		(impressive for a beginner!)

				- more later
				Arlo the fallen angel
				and Keeper of the Flame

blk@sri-unix (11/10/82)

This is hot on the heals of my first message (well, same day).  I hope that
sites getting this, number 2, have already read 1.
A brief recoup:  I have the audacity to think I can design a better system,
where better means 1) shorter, 2) closer to fantasy, and 3) easier to sue
use with a computer as right-hand-man.

Last message outlined concept for weapon ranking.  On to magic.
Consider:
  "All right, gang.  I was never too good with illusions in general,
I've always been better with physical things, elemental spells and 
transformations.  But I think the Grey Lord is over extending himself.
He must be tired after all this time.  Notice how the 'phantom flame'
only flares up when we get the horses near on part or another of the
clearing's perimeter?  He knows we need the beasts to make it through 
the Dark Wood.  What if we all rushed our steeds simultaneously at
different points in the circle, and then regroup if we break the spell.
I am weak, but I'll make a try at creating a 'film of shadow' over the
horses eyes, to darken the flames a bit."
1) Fantasy spells *never* simply succeed or fail.  They linger, they work a
	little bit, they are more dependable when you are sitting around
	at home than when you have been fighting all morning.
2) Magic is hard work!  Spell casting is a drag if you have been up all 
	night.
3) Very hard spells are more tiring.  A mage *will* light his pipe more 
	casually than throwing a fireball.  The spells might be very close,
	however.  A matter of effort.
4) Once a spell is set, it can be maintained, with less effort and greater
	reliability than originally casting it.
5) We are all better at some things than others.  Also, similar things
	are easier to learn.  Interest is not the only reason that a mage
	learns so much of a certain sort of spell.

Let's try some formulae: 
	Cast chance - probability of a spell taking effect.
	=  energy_used * ( difficulty + degree + rank ) + preparation
		where
	energy_used = How hard one tries (how tiring)
	difficulty = the higher the number, the easier the spell
	degree = mage's highest rank with any spell
	rank = How good one is with this spell
	preparation = something like  degree * hours_spent

	Starting rank - rank one has when the spell is learned.
	=  associated statistics + Wisdom - average
	   ----------------------------------------
				3

		where
	associated statistics = the two basic stats (characteristics in D&D)
				that are associated with a spell
	Wisdom = one basic stat
	average = ie - on a 1-10 scale of human achievement, average might
			be a 4, so the average of the three stats would 
			be a 12.

Example:
'phantom flame' has the statistics for ESP and Wisdom associated with it.
The aspiring mage Presto has just 'finished', in his instructor's eyes,
learning proper ability to control the phlame spell.  As you can tell,
he is of low intelligence (I mean seriously, he calls himself "Presto"?!)
but he has a high Wisdom and moderate ESP.  No contradiction, here, many
famous wise men have been notable idiots; "So, wise guy, how come you live
in a cave in the mountains, eh?"  
Intelligence = 2	Wisdom = 8	ESP = 5
Strength = 3		Health = 4	etc.
So when his instructor finally reveals the technique and chant for preparing
the spell (usually the last thing taught, for obvious reasons), he is
surprised to see that his slow witted student can muster

	5 + 8 + 8 - 12
	--------------
	      3			= 	rank 3 spell

Unfortunately, Presto is only a 2nd degree mage, since one can only advance
in the various 'professions' (fighter, mage, healer, mystic, scholar, etc.)
through experience.  Note that these are not character classes unless you
believe there are no restrictions on multi-classing (D&D).  Presto is also
1st degree fighter and 2nd degree healer.

Also note that Wisdom is a factor in all magic, and also in all the 
Elemental spells (illusory or otherwise).  This explains why many of
the high powered wizards of myth and legend have had such extraordinary
elemental powers - a very high wisdom in a magician makes for great
weather at parties.

				- more to come
				Arlo the fallen angel
				and keeper of the flame