[net.games.frp] Looking for a new game...

rogerb@tekmdp.UUCP (06/16/83)

   I am looking for an FRP to play and would like some help..
 
   I have played AD&D for about five years now and have gotten stifled
into certain classes, races, spells, etc.  Things I am looking for are:
 
         1)  'Free-form' classes.  That is, there are no 'set' classes--
             i.e. if you are a magic-user then you can cast x spells per
             day, can use only a select kind of weapon...  What I want is
             perhaps something akin to Runequest so that a character can
             become proficient in whatever he desires.  If possible, it
             would be kind of nice to be able to make up your own spells:
             knowing that a wizard can only cast spells 1..N makes him a
             known danger, whereas if a wizard has his own unique sor-
             ceries, he becomes an enigma.

         2)  A spell point system for magic.  I guess I am just tired of
             'gee, all I got left is a couple of 4th level spells and
             what I really need is a detect magic.'  Tunnels & Trolls has 
             one, but T&T doesn't really fit in (easily) with other games. 
             Runequest has one, but the RQ magic system just does not 
             appeal to me overall ( however, since i have not actually
             played RQ yet, maybe it is not quite so undesirable).  The
             reason I like such a system is to be able to use small inc-
             rements of magical ability -- powering a magic wand with a
             D&D first level spell is almost prohibitive, but perhaps 
             using only 1 mana/POW/STR/spell point would not be.

         3)  A non-AD&D combat system.  FRPG's have advanced a long way
             since AD&D was made, so there must be something better for
             combat.  It would be neat if there were [easier] methods of
             non-lethal combat than those shown in the DM's Guide.  I
             like armor affecting damage taken as opposed to hit proba-
             bility, as in Tunnels & Trolls, but that's mere technicality.
 
         4)  Lack of discrete levels.  It seems kind of unrealistic (sic)
             to think that after practicing for five weeks or so that one
             will suddenly gain 5 hit points, become proficient with a new
             weapon, gain three more spell levels, and save better when
             (supposedly) you have been practicing this stuff all year.

     Well, those are the things I would like to have in an FRPG.  Things I
have looked at include: High Fantasy, a fairly decent FRPG, it's just that
I think the combat system is too lethal; Champions, a super-hero RPG I tried
to modify for fantasy, but the task escaped my simplicity; Tunnels & Trolls,
a game I dismissed almost immediately for its 'cuteness' and incredibly
inane spell names; and Runequest, which I haven't played yet, but from 
browsing through the manual at the bookstore, seems of moderate complexity
(but, the magic system doesn't appeal to my tastes a whole lot).  Oh, yes,
I've also played Fantasy Trip (at least Wizard and Melee), but it seemed to
turn me off as a more tactical game (too, I never managed to keep anyone 
alive for too long in Wizard and Melee).
 
     Is there such a game as I am looking for, or am I feebleminded?  Does
anyone feel as I do, searching for an 'analog' FRPG?  Have I missed something
in my appraisals of Runequest, Tunnels & Trolls, High Fantasy, or even AD&D?
I would certainly appreciate relevant comments.


                                     Roger Bonzer
                                     Tektronix, Ore
                                     

jonab@sdcrdcf.UUCP (06/20/83)

My favorite role playing game is Fantasy Trip.  Do not
dismiss it in view of only the basic Melee and Wizard modules.
The advanced system introduces non-combat skills, and also
gives decent rules about setting up dungeons.  As to your
specific questions:

1)  There are only two classes in FT: Magic users and everyone else.
    However, magic users can learn to use any weapon, and non-magic
    users can learn spells, but at a premium of skill points.
    (Skill points are equal to your intelligence, and you can
    use them for weapon skills, spells, or other non-weapon skills
    like literacy, horsemanship, thief, detect & remove traps, etc.

2)  Fantasy trip has a very simple spell point system.  Each spell
    causes a certain amount of exaustion to the character, which
    is applied against his hit points, but he can rest and get them
    back faster than he can heal wounds.

3)  Fantasy trip has a non D&D combat system.  Each player has a
    dexterity rating affected by armor and what else he is carrying
    that he must roll less than to hit.  Each weapon then does a
    different random amount of damage, which is reduced by the
    targets armor and shield.  I prefer this combat system because
    it is much more realistic and it takes less time to resolve
    battles.  As a GM, I give each player a list of the options
    he is allowed to choose from each combat round.  They are very
    explicit and cover almost all combat situations.  The battles run
    faster once your players have played a couple of times because
    he knows exactly what he is capable of doing at each point,
    and because FT requires a tactical map for the battles, he
    has no problem visualizing the spatial relationships envolved.

4)  No frp game will easily rid itself completely of discrete levels
    because at some point you have to say that a character is able
    to do something better than he did before.  However Fantasy Trip
    does a good job at making the levels close enough together that
    the character does not jump unrealistically in skills.  After
    accumulating enough experience, a character may trade them for
    one extra point of strength, dexterity, or intelligence.  Strength
    dictates how large a weapon you can swing, and is also equal to
    the characters hit points.  Dexterity is a direct measure of
    how likely the character is to connect when he swings a weapon,
    and Intelligence gives how many skills an spells the character
    may know.  So when a character gains a level, he can choose to
    take more damage, hit his opponents more often, or learn one
    new spell or skill.

The main disadvantage with Fantasy Trip is that there is little
aid for a novice game master who is trying to create his own
world from scratch.  Knowledge of other frp games and a lot of
time is required to be able to set up a coherent world.  However if
all you want to do is design dungeons for the players to explore,
it is really no worse than any other game.

					Jon Biggar

tim@unc.UUCP (06/20/83)

I too have heard good things about the I.C.E. rules.  The only
major complaint seems to be that the system is very complex,
and involves a lot of "table-hopping".  According to my brother,
the system was originally computerized.  Does anyone know about
availability of a computer-runnable form of these rules?

I recommend RuneQuest strongly.  It is to AD&D what UNIX is to
VMS.  It has a consistent set of "core" rules that make extension
easy, instead of the AD&D approach of making up a whole new rule
system every time you add something.  It is also far more realistic,
but not at the expense of playability.  I like realism because it
makes it easier to identify with the character.

Tim Maroney

nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) (07/03/83)

I agree with Jon Biggar.  The "Fantasy Trip" (which is comprised of
"Advanced Mele", "Advanced Wizard", and "In the Labyrinth") is by far
the best FRP game on the market.  It is better than AD&D, D&D, Basic
D&D, T&T, Traveler, DragonQuest and RuneQuest.  In fact, only RuneQuest
comes anywhere close.  I don't like RuneQuest as much because it is more
complicated (too complicated) without added realism and is generally not
as fun.  The only problem with "The Fantasy Trip" (besides a small but
important combat rule flaw that is easily fixed) is that the rules are
not as organized as they could be.  This is not Steve Jackson's (the
designer of the game) fault, though.  He was screwed by MetaGaming.  In
fact he left MetaGaming and formed his own company mostly because of the
way that they screwed him with the "Fantasy Trip".
-- 
                                Doug Alan
				decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!nessus
				Nessus@MIT-MC

nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (07/03/83)

I agree with Jon Biggar.  The "Fantasy Trip" (which is comprised of
"Advanced Mele", "Advanced Wizard", and "In the Labyrinth") is by far
the best FRP game on the market.  It is better than AD&D, D&D, Basic
D&D, T&T, Traveler, DragonQuest and RuneQuest.  In fact, only RuneQuest
comes anywhere close.  I don't like RuneQuest as much because it is more
complicated (too complicated) without added realism and is generally not
as fun.  The only problem with "The Fantasy Trip" (besides a small but
important combat rule flaw that is easily fixed) is that the rules are
not as organized as they could be.  This is not Steve Jackson's (the
designer of the game) fault, though.  He was screwed by MetaGaming.  In
fact he left MetaGaming and formed his own company mostly because of the
way that they screwed him with the "Fantasy Trip".
--
                                Doug Alan
				decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!nessus
				Nessus@MIT-MC

melvin@ucbvax.UUCP (07/18/83)

	I have two possible suggestions...

		1) The Fantasy Trip (i.e. Advanced Wizard, Advanced Melee,
		and In the Labyrinth) from Metagaming.  It uses a system
		where you improve your character's stats (Strength, 
		Dexterity, IQ) with experience. Skills and spells take time
		to learn.  The spell system uses mana points to cast an
		unfortunately limited selection (~100) of spells.  You can
		mix magic with manual skills but it costs.

		2) Swordquest from Heritage.  This uses a very strange spell
		point system (the unit of spell casting is a node).  The
		magic is based on a group of 9 (I think) elements and a type
		of magic involving the essenses of the dead.  It too allows
		the free mixing of magic and weaponry, etc..  A nice system
		from a strange source.

	There are also a couple of other games that you might consider look-
ing at.  Dragonquest from SPI.  I haven't had a good look at this; but from
the brief peek, it looks promising.  The other is Rolemaster from Iron Crown
Enterprises.  This is a 'realistic' system with a different table for each
type of weapon (including fisticuffs, beaks, claws & martial arts tricks).  
The magic is broken up into various schools with each possessing an \ample/ 
spell list.  Tables abound - one for about any action you could conceive of.
Rolemaster is at worst an interesting system.


					mark yatabe
					yatabe@ucbmiro