bb@lanl-a.UUCP (09/29/83)
I find the Orcus problem very interesting, because so many people have so many different opinions about different elements in the game. Some think Orcus is too hard to kill but I don't really think so. He has only 132 hit points, a well equipped party of very high level characters (>15) would have little trouble dealing with him. A high level monk with a storm giant strength belt can generate over 100 points in a single round of just open hand damage. A high level bard can easily have more hp than the big O. The problem gets much tougher for 1 level 1 character of course, but I think at least the 20 +3 darts w/ SGS belt solution will give a sporting chance. Wishes also seem to be a matter of some debate. I find Tim's claim that wishing for a bonus of +15 to hit for a rod of cancellation is reasonable and any good DM would allow it to be shaky. Nowhere in any of the books or scenarios I have read has anything ever had more than a +6 or +7 to hit, although a character could have more with a combination of items. I wouldn't allow such a wish, +7 yes, +15 no. On the other hand someone states that wishes won't work at all on the big O's plane because he controls it. This is incorrect, the 9th level wish spell is a spell which is memorized and cast just like any other, not granted by a deity, though deities can grant wishes, which a human mage cannot. Wishes stored in a wish ring are not granted by the ruler of particular plane, but placed therre (by using other wishes in my world) by a >19th level mage. Therefore wishes would work full force on Orcus, subject to his magic resistence. Oh, his magic resistence. It is listed in the MM as 85%. This is against 11th level magic use. A wish is at least 18th level, perhaps higher, thus his resistence against a wish is only 50%. Against items it depends on the level of the item. If a staff functions at level 8, then his magic resistance against it is 100%. The way I play is that permanently magicked items are much higher level than rechargables, thus the mirror of opposition, which would require a permanency spell (16th lvl MU), and at least one wish (18th lvl mu), would work at 18th or higher level (I would say slightly higher, 20th.). The staff of the magi is rechargable, but is very powerful, so I would say at least 16th level for it as regards magic resistence. The use of the term level is very confusing at times. Above I always refer to the level of the mu required to cast such a spell. I know wishes are 9th level spells, but magic resistence is measured against the level of the person who casts the magic, makes the item, etc. I haven't been able yet to come up with a different set of items that will kill the O before he gets the PC, but I certainly don't think it's impossible. Bargaining with him I would think is rather hopeless. Laura says oaths are binding in her world, and even the big O would fear to break his once given, but no such restriction on him exists in my world. He is CE, his word means nothing. Trying to bargain from strength (threatening to destroy the Wand of Orcus for example) is a pretty good idea, but his psionics and own ability to control his plane would make me think twice about it. His ability to summon undead is secondary to the problem as stated, but I do not think he can or would summon any undead > vampires. Liches in particular are too much for him -- they are very high level MU/Clerics that prevent their soul from departing their enspelled flesh and are Prime Material inhabitants, not abyssl. Their energy is drawn from the negative material plane, and I play Orcus has being able to summon and control all of the lesser and some of the greater undead, but not all that fall in that catagory. Using his true name is a better bargaining point, but I don't think a wish would reveal it to you. If I were a DM and a player wished for a true name, he would be gated to the place where the name in question can be found, and he would have to fight for it. Well, I think I've said my piece. Please don't think that I am so egotistical to think that my opinions are any better than anyone else's. I find the different interpretations of the game rules and ideas expressed in this group very interesting and believe that these differences of opinion are one of the appealing parts of the game. I am glad that so much mail has been generated these last couple of weeks, let's keep it up! b2 Bryan Bingham ...ucbvax!lbl-csam!lanl-a!bb