[net.games.frp] Jesus as an NPC

chongo@nsc.UUCP (10/13/83)

It's pretty clear that if Jesus were a D&D NPC, he'd be a high level
Cleric (at least 17th level), with minimum ability scores of:
wisdom 18, charisma 18.  These are of course minimums.  He clearly has
the ability alter reality (loaves & fishes), control weather (during the
walk-on-water bit), and cure disease several times a day (at some distance),
to resurrect (at some distance), and so on.  All very well.

(I will not deal here with whether or not Jesus would in fact be considered
a deity, since that is a matter of belief ...).

But what about alignment?  'Good,' clearly, but on the other axis?  I don't
think he's terribly Lawful, since his favors, blessings and other benefits
are granted indiscriminately to all (even the Romans, who are, in this
context, Lawful Neutral/Evil).  In fact, I believe that Judas is more of
the Lawful Good/Neutral type which explains some of the conflicts between
the two.  Does that make Jesus Chaotic Good?  I think so, but somewhat more
towards Neutral Good.

I have a tendancy to believe, however, that persons of spiritual importance
are more likely to be True Neutral to Neutral Good, but that's just my bias.

(I do things like this when waiting for the other players to show up).

parks@kpno.UUCP (10/18/83)

> ...if Jesus were a D&D NPC, he'd be a high level Cleric (at least
> 17th) level, with minimum ability scores of: wisdom 18, charisma 18.

Not at all!  While I can agree with the ability scores, I feel that 9th
level is sufficient to account for the spells that Jesus cast.  (Say, have
you received any flames about this whole thing yet?  I mean, Jesus as a D&D
NPC is pretty disrespectful.)  Anyway, the loaves and fishes can be
explained as 'create food & water' (perhaps create food & wine?).  'Cure
Disease' is a fairly low-level spell, although you can't do it from a
distance.

A recent issue of the Dragon (TSR's D&D magazine) has come up
with some new *official* clerical spells (to be eventually put in a new
Player's Handbook supplement).  Among the new spells are 'Walk on Water'
(I think it's third level), and one which allows curing at a distance.  The
most impressive of the miracles was of course when Jesus raised the dead.
This was not (D&D) ressurection!  The dead were all freshly dead, and could
have been raised with the 5th level 'raise dead' spell.

The toughest thing to explain is Jesus ressurecting himself after being
killed.  I would be tempted to put this down to divine intervention, in
conjunction with the Divine Ascencion of Jesus.

Moses, on the other hand, was *really* high level.  He was causing plagues,
making storms, parting seas, and all sorts of things like that!  I might be
tempted to make Moses 17th level.  What do you think?


                                      in  the 99.4% pure ivory tower,
                                       Jay Parks
	{...,arizona,decvax,hao,ihnp4,sdcsvax,seismo,unc}!kpno!parks

tim@unc.UUCP (Tim Maroney) (10/25/83)

I utterly fail to understand how anyone could call Jesus anything but
Lawful.  Requiring adherence to certain semi-arbitrary codes of conduct on
pain of eternal damnation is about as Lawful as you can get.  In addition,
his doctrines attempted to negate the individual will in favor of the will
of The Big Authority Figure in the Sky, which is also an extremely Lawful
idea.  The entire Judeo-Christian-Moslem thing is extremely Lawful in its
approach to morality.

The other axis would seem to be clear cut.  Most people would not hesitate
to place Jesus squarely in Good.  Is this correct?  Remember that if Jesus
was telling the truth, he acted for a being which created Hell, ordered the
murder of thousands of relatively inoffensive pagans in a variety of places,
slaughtered thousands of innocent children and millions of animals in the
Flood, and so on.  Not only that, but Jesus appears to take a good deal of
pleasure in contemplating and expounding upon the damnation of his enemies.
These are not things I would consider appropriate for a Good player
character to participate in.

As a lark a while back, I worked up a Judeo-Christian pantheon for AD&D,
placing the various deities in the Seven Heavens (i.e., Lawful Good).  If
there is any interest, I suppose I could type them in for you all.
________________________________________________
Tim Maroney
duke!unc!tim (USENET), tim.unc@udel-relay (ARPA)
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill