grindal@utcsrgv.UUCP (David Grindal) (10/21/83)
Ok, people. I've got a problem for you. I'm a faily recent
addition to the frp world (about one year of AD&D), and recently my
GM asked if I could run a dungeon so that he could play one of his characters.
I thought this was fine, so I used on of Gygax'x modules and plugged it into
our game with the addition of my GM's character.
This is where the problems began. This character is one of his
favorites, for reasons you will soon understand. He has been playing her
for over three years (real time - about 30 years game time). I'll describe
this character to you now.
STR: 19(45)
WIS: 17
INT: 18 (or 19. I can't remember)
DEX: 22 Yes, that's right. 22!!!
CON: 17
CHR 16
This character started life as a fighter with good but not execptional
stats. After reaching 8th level as a fighter, she switched classes (yes, she's{human) to assasin. (She's lawful evil). At 7th level assassin, she switched
again to illusionist. At present she is at 14th level in that class.
She intends to become in the future: a thief for the backstabbing
a magic-user (for the offensive spells); a monk and eventually a cleric.
I'm sure you already see some of my problems. She has about 100 odd
hit points, and to make things worse, over the course of her life she has
accumulated a very large amount of magic. This partially accounts for
her stats. She has used the books to increase strength and dexterity. She
wears gauntlets of dexterity, and has met magic pools a few times in her life.
She also owns: ring of regeneration, ring of wraith-form, several very nasty
swords, several wands(potent ones too), and other stuff I won't list.
You ain't heard the worst of it yet! For protection she has:
Bracers (AC 2) + cloak(+4) + ring(+3) + defender sword(+5)
+ scarab agaist chaotics(+1) + scarab against good (+1)
for an armour class of: -5 just standing there
-9 with her dex
-14 with all 5 from the sword on defense
-15 against chaotics or goods
-16 against chaotic goods
Want more? Because of her dex, the DMG allows her to use two
weapons simultaneously. So she has two attacks one round, 4 the next, all
as an 8th level fighter! Don't forget the backstabbing abilities as well.
A formidable fighter indeed!
Now top all this off with the spells of a 14th level illusionist, and
(oh did I mention that she's also a powerful psionic) you 've got someone I
don't want to even think of taking on.
Now to my problem. As you can imagine, this character went through
the dungeon like a hot knife through butter. She wiped out a stone golem
all by hersef, without the slightest bit of trouble. Even the heap-big,
ultra-powerful vampire at the climax of the adventure was quickly dispatched.
If you were GM'ing an adventure with such a character what would/could
you do? Beefing up the monsters during the adventure is one possiblity but
is inconsistent, difficult and unfair to the rest of the party. (Something that
could give her trouble would wipe out any other character in the group.)
I've never liked arbitrarily tampering with rolls. Not that it would do much
good against her. Most monsters can't hit her with a 20, and the cloak and
ring give her saving throws down around 2 or 3. I could make dictatorial
declarations during the game, but it would be obviously a directed, deliberate
persecution, and the player would get upset. Frankly, I didn't know what
to try.
Is there anyone out there in net.frp who has got a better imagination
than I do? Has run into this problem before? Has any ideas whatsoever?
Mail replies would be nice, but I'm sure this would be a good discussion
topic as well.
David Grindal
(...!utzoo!utcsrgv!grindal)arnold@umcp-cs.UUCP (10/23/83)
Summary of character that is problem for David Grindal Age about 50 years old. (20 years old plus about 30 years game time). STR: 19(45) fighter 8th level WIS: 17 assassin 7th level INT: 18 illusionist 14th level DEX: 22 CON: 17 ambitions wants to be a magic-user, thief, and CHR 16 monk also. Hit Points 100+ powerful psionic wears gauntlets of dexterity, and has met magic pools a few times in her life. She also owns: ring of regeneration, ring of wraith-form, several very nasty swords, several wands(potent ones too), and other stuff not listed. Bracers (AC 2) + cloak(+4) + ring(+3) + defender sword(+5) + scarab agaist chaotics(+1) + scarab against good (+1) for an armour class of: -5 just standing there -9 with her dex -14 with all 5 from the sword on defense -15 against chaotics or goods -16 against chaotic goods Because of her dex, the DMG allows her to use two weapons simultaneously. So she has two attacks one round, 4 the next, all as an 8th level fighter! Don't forget the backstabbing abilities as well. Some thoughts about the character above 1) This character is getting on in age (50 years is not young) she has at most 30 more years of playing. 2) The classes and stats that she is makes her equal to a 17th of 18th level character. 3) Her armor class and attacking ability are all most unreal. 4) A character like this is well on their way to hero status if not possible demi-god status. (check she stats with some of the demi-gods stats in the D&D Gods book) 5) She has probilbly made lots of emenies, like the fighters and assasssins guilds for quiting them to join the illusionts guild. Solutions to the problem 1) Most other characters may not want to associate with her because she will get all the glory on an expidition no matter who does the work. Heros always seem to get that type of response weither they work or not. 2) Until the other characters reach a comprable level of ability, she should be sent on mission fitting a hero of the relm, Like Hercules, or Lance-a-lot. 3) Design some seneros in which she and other characters are on mission, but the bad guys are out to get her and will leave the rest of the party alone. Overall Solutions to the problem of letting in outside world charcters into your games. 1) Make sure that they will not upset the balance of game. 2) If they will upset the balance of the game then weaken what they can bring into the game. Limit the magic items, there effective level, or other restritions. (No one can have an AC better than -10) 3) If you want them in the game just strenght the opposition. Good luck with this Hero (Demi-god) in the future. --- arnold@umcp-cs -- --- Arnold Miller, U of Maryland, College Park MD Usenet: ...!seismo!umcp-cs!arnold Arpanet: arnold%umcp-cs@CSNet-Relay
robison@eosp1.UUCP (10/26/83)
In reply to David Grindal's request for help with a "too powerful character": You have two large problems, and a few small ones: I. Don't let a character into an adventure if it is the wrong level for the adventure. II. Don't let a character into an adventure if it is the wrong level to match the rest of the player characters. Now the problem is what to do when the character has slipped into the adventure. Since you are using a commerical module (they all recommend experience levels for the players), you apparently didn't know what you were letting in. If,as someone guessed, you are using "Caverns of Tuesday", the party should average about level 8 or so. Now: 1. Why isn't your "friend" offering to retire from the adventure that s/he is spoiling? Since you seem to have a problem in diplomacy: 2. Bend all your efforts to separating the character from the adventure. Try to promote it to hero status, trap it, entice it with a plane full of relics, but somehow get it separated from the party. Remember, while it is with the party, anything that endangers it is likely to blow the weaker party members away without effort. Which brings me to my next point: 3. Why are the other players willing to associate with this out-of-range character? 4. Once it is separated from the party, one of your options is to try to kill the character. This should be a good challenge, but don't expect it to be easy. You will be pitting your control of the universe against your opponent's superior knowledge of the rules, and extra GMing experience. 5. By the way, AD&D allows humans to switch to a second class, but not a third and a fourth, with the exception of (sigh) Bards. - Keremath, care of: Robison decvax!ittvax!eosp1 or: allegra!eosp1