parks@kpno.UUCP (10/18/83)
A few days ago, I sent a letter out asking for help in saving dragons
from the nefarious and wicked minions of humanity. This concerns that
in a sideways fashion. As this is a question dealing --entirely--
with AD&D, you patrons of a more reasonable gaming system may feel
free to pass over the rest.
One incident I mentioned had a magic resistant creature. A spell had
been cast on the ceiling above him, turning the rock to mud. The mud
buried him, and he could not resist. It was my belief that since the
spell was not cast at or on him, he couldn't resist it. When the
magical mud did strike him, he could resist it but this would only
have the effect of turning the falling magical mud back into (now
falling) normal rock.
Others felt that magic resistance would have worked entirely
different. The spell could never have been used to attack if he
resisted it (even though it was never cast at him), or the falling
(magical) mud would not have hurt him.
It gets worse. The creature (a shy, retiring dragon) was now deep in
magical mud. A dispel magic was cast, changing the mud to rock and
trapping him.
Well, can you resist a dispel magic? When the magic is dispeled,
does the rock return to the ceiling, as several people thought?
Finally, many people had a **radically** different view of the
"dispel magic" spell. The spell description says the spell is
permanent. I always assumed that this was like curing wounds, it
worked once and the magic was gone. Spells were dispeled and that
was it. Not one, but several people said that a dispel magic is an
area of effect that lasts permanently. It creates a zone where spells
are naturally dispeled.
If dispel magic is permanent, it radically alters my universe. How
do you get rid of a dispel magic? Why, by casting another one, of
course! The darned things proliferate. Pretty soon, most of the
world is in a dispel magic field (say hello to the real world). This
cuts down the power of wizards tremendously, since magic suddenly
becomes much more unreliable. Who knows where one of these old
dispels might be lurking around. And what foolish wizard is going to
cast one? After all, a dispel has a chance (roughly 50%) of negating
somebody else's magic, but it AUTOMATICALLY dispels the caster's
magic!! What wizard in his right mind is going to let one of those
things loose?
To say the least, I thought these ideas a bit odd, but after several
different people came up with the same interpretation, I began to
wonder. Any opinions out there? Can the laws of the universe be
decided by voting on them? Is there a game system anywhere which is
so concise that everyone agrees on the rules? These questions, and
many others will be answered in the next episode of soap. . .
From my ivory tower,
Jay Parks
{...,arizona,decvax,hao,ihnp4,sdcsvax,seismo,unc}!kpno!parks
(hey, where did all these suds come from? oh no! it's raining!)ralph@inuxc.UUCP (Ralph Keyser) (10/18/83)
The dispel magic spell in D&D is permanent in the sense that it never lets the magic that it dispelled return. It works almost exactly like a cure lt. wounds. If you cure 4 points of wounds, those points are regained. The spell is permanent, that means that those 4 points are never lost simply because the spell wears off. It does not mean that the character now has an area on his/her body that automatically heals itself whenever it gets hit. Dispel magic works once, and does not affect any magic that comes along later. And while we are on the subject (this could get really messy, since D&D is littered with paradoxes and holes), what happens if you throw a dispel magic at an area with several spells in effect. Does the dispel magic work against all the spells in the area, or just one? If just one, then which one? Think about that one sports fans. Ralph Keyser ihnp4!inuxc!ralph
djb@cbosgd.UUCP (David J. Bryant) (10/19/83)
Allowing dispel magic to work on any and all spells/items operating in
a general area makes it far too powerful a spell. Imagine casting
dispel magic at a large party loaded with magic items and
spell-enhanced too. Wham, one roll of the old percentile dice and
you've sterilized the entire group. We allow a single dispel magic to
be cast against a specified item ("dispel magic on the door"), or
better yet, a specific spell operating in the area or on the object
("dispel the protection from good on the throne", or "dispel the
continual darkness in this room"). Further, an item enchanted with
three separate spells takes three dispel magic spells to be completely
de-magicked. If the caster doesn't know how many spells are in
operation, then the DM can select one of them randomly. Clearly this
spell must be adjudicated with care, and must be applied reasonably
(and hopefully consistantly). Remember, in many cases the DM can
decide at what level the magic was cast onto the item/area, thereby
adjusting the chance for success.
David Bryant Bell Labs Columbus, OH (614) 860-4516
(cbosg!djb)kechkayl@pur-ee.UUCP (10/21/83)
#R:kpno:-25300:ecn-ee:14500004:000:478 ecn-ee!kechkayl Oct 21 04:05:00 1983 In all the time that I have played AD&D, I have NEVER heard of a DM who runs dispel magic in that way. If a dispel magic was a permanent field, it would make the 3rd level spell more powerful that the (I think, I don't have books now) 6th level spell "Anti-Magic Field" I see no reason for dispel magic to be permanent. I run it in the same way you did. The spell dispells everything it is able to, and then goes away. I think this is much more plausible! Thomas Ruschak
andree@uokvax.UUCP (10/24/83)
#R:kpno:-25300:uokvax:2400003:000:770
uokvax!andree Oct 20 12:58:00 1983
Is there a game system anywhere which is so concise
that everyone agrees on the rules?
Hah! Fat chance! Being an old fashioned war-gamer (you know, those things
people played before D&D appeared), I will ascertain that such is unlikely.
People didn't agree on the rules for those (fairly simple) games, so there
is little chance that they will agree on the rules for anything as complex
as an frp. For that matter, people can't agree about the rules on
something like monopoly!
The problem is that the game designer {\B CAN'T} foresee everything that
anybody will try to do with every object in the universe (a VERY large set
of situations), so they have to leave holes. This is also why anyone
interested in a reasonable computer-run frp needs to be in AI.
<mikeholt@parsec.UUCP (10/27/83)
#R:kpno:-25300:parsec:35400001:000:1469
parsec!holt Oct 26 16:08:00 1983
We have always played that dispel magic works on the effects of one
previously cast spell. An excellent companion spell which should precede
the dispell magic spell is detect magic. Especially if the magic user
is of relatively high level. At "high level", a magic user can learn
much about the types of magic that exist in an area, and will be much more
likely to succeed in dispelling the one particular effect which he
desires as a result of the knowlege gained from the detect magic. The
detect magic should also give the magic user some type of idea as to the
power of the magic which he is going to attempt to dispell. (ie, some
approximation of the level of the spell caster who cast the target spell,
and thus the relative chance of success of the dispell magic). If the
magic user is of "low level", the detect magic spell should at least enable
him to isolate the target of his dispell magic spell. (even though he may
gain no other large amount of useful information)
By the way, I have always enjoyed D&D much more when the GM had a very
well thought out magic system which was applied in a consistent manner.
As has been said before in this forum, hacking and slashing monsters to death
grows tiresome. A well thought out magic system allows for a type of character
(MU,ILL,C,etc) who can be creative in his pursuit of experience and that ever
elusive next experience level.........
Dave Holt
{allegra,ihnp4,uiucdcs}!parsec!holt