disc@houxz.UUCP (S.BERRY) (04/09/84)
I was having a discussion with a friend the other day about polymorphing spells, and came up with a question or two we thought of interest to the net. First of all, with respect to Polymorph Self, once the spell has been initially cast, how are the intermediate transfers between forms accomplished? Is it verbal, gestural, or simply mental (since a Black Pudding, for example, could neither make sounds nor "hand" motions)? Secondly, what would happen if a Mage was in the process of polymorphing himself while a second wizard was casting a Polymorph Other on him? Assuming he kept his intelligence under the latter spell, could he not use the former to restore himself temporarily to human form, then cast a Dispel Magic on himself, effectively negating both spells? Or would he be "frozen" into the form he had polymorphed himself to? What would happen if he (by wild coincidence) was changing into the same form that was the result of the Polymorph Other spell? Please post any replies, ruminations, or references to the net. "Before you attack me, answer this: 'Do you really WANT to be a toad?' " Scott J. Berry ...!houxz!disc
jj@rabbit.UUCP (04/09/84)
What do you get if you polymorph a demi-shadow-monster? Cogitate on it for a bit, first. -- TEDDY BEARS ARE NICER THAN PEOPLE--HUG YOURS TODAY! (If you go out in the woods today ... ) (allegra,harpo,ulysses)!rabbit!jj
mr-frog@sdcsvax.UUCP (04/10/84)
<> When the player's handbook first came out (with the revised spell descriptions) we noticed that polymorph self and poly other had been changed so that they had different effects. We determined that this was absurd, and decided to stick with the older version. I'll just bet that Gygax, after seeing how useful polymorph other was, decided to crock it to the point of uselessness. What I refer to is uses such as "Oh, a stone wall? Ok, I'll polymorph the fighter into an Umber Hulk and he'll dig a passage through." Now with the new description, there would be a decent chance for the fighter to permanently change into the umber hulk (kinda bad for the party's health). Now, I must admit I exaggerated when I said the new polymorph other is useless; it's not. Now, with this new spell, it's possible to convert icky nasty brutes to faithful worshippers of Bahamut (and good chess-players to boot)! Take your average ogre. Zap him with the New, Improved Polymorph Other spell, and assuming he makes his system shock, (and fails his save), there's a 105% chance you'll have an ancient huge gold dragon on your hands, Lawful Good alignment included free of charge! Of course, there is the other side of the coin -- making Tiamat worshippers (Ancient Huge Red dragons) out of hapless second level lawful good clerics... The chance is derived from the PH pp. 78 "polymorph other" formula. 100% - (5% x intelligence) + ((dragon_hd - ogre_hd) x 5%) 100% - (5 x 7) + ((12 - 4) x 5%) = 100 - 35 + 40 = 105% Since only a fourth level spell can do ALL this, it seems reasonable to have a lower level spell that simply changes the form, and not the alignment, hit-dice, mentality, and knowlege of the target. I'm saying all this to illustrate a point. I really don't like the idea behind the new version -- our "race-change" spell is ninth level, and IT doesn't change alignment, or imbue the target with any new knowlege, or give the target hit dice. The old version of polymorph simply changed the form, and means of locomotion. In my book, the new polymorph just does too much. Any Gygax-worshippers care to take up the gauntlet? Dave Pare ucbvax!sdcsvax!mr-frog
hutch@shark.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (04/12/84)
What do you get if you polymorph a demi-shadow monster? Good question. What do you get when you polymorph an undead? HOW do you polymorph a demi-shadow monster? (I suggest that if you allow it that the creator's save should be used) I would imagine that IF you could polymorph an entity that hold existance through the delusions of an Illusionist, that it would change to what you specify, but still be under the control of the Illusionist, and that you may have increased the reality of it enough that it can do real (read, full normal) damage. In any case it would vanish as soon as the end of the spell which created it, and the Illusionist could dismiss it as per usual. Maybe even modify the effects of the transformation on it? Hutch (who doesn't even LIKE ad&dtm)
wbpesch@ihuxp.UUCP (Walt Pesch) (04/15/84)
I don't understand this discussion at all. A demi-shadow monster does
not exist. How can you polymorph anything that does not exist? I
think that the spell would have no effect other than let the
spellcaster of the polymorph know that it was an illusion.
Still waiting for the bolt from the skies,
Walt Pesch
AT&T Technologies
ihnp4!ihuxp!wbpeschjeff@alberta.UUCP (Jeff Sampson) (04/16/84)
> But a demi-shadow monster doesn't exist? How can you > polymorph somthing that doesn't exist? If that held true, then an illusion couldn't harm you. It can, though, so long as you believe in it. I think that it would polymorph, but whatever it polymorphed into would also not be "real". Curt Jeff Sampson alberta!jeff "Watch out, Mr. T. From Tuktoyatuk, it's the ** eh? team **."
hutch@shark.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (04/17/84)
<demi-shadow bug catcher> From the Players Handbook, DemiShadow Monsters ... This spell is similar to the fourth level spell Shadow Monsters, except that the monsters created are of 40% hit points ... Shadow Monsters ... enables the illusionist to create semi-real phantasms of one or more monsters... The DM Guide indicates that the Shadow and DemiShadow spells actually tap a real source of power, rather than being completely illusory in nature. Therefore, the problem of whether to allow a shadow or demishadow monster to be affected by a polymorph is a real one, and it is the Ref's responsibility to decide what the nature of reality of such a monster is. There have been (to my recollection) no declarations or clarifications of this question in Dragon Magazine, the official house organ of TSR. Hutch. Note: AD&D, Dragon Magazine, and AD&D Players Handbook are all trademarks of TSR Games. DemiShadow Monsters and Shadow Monsters are probably also trademarks. The excerpts taken here are from the Player's Handbook, copyright 1978 of TSR (my copy) and are excerpted following the guidelines for fair use.