dwex@ittvax.UUCP (David Wexelblat) (05/30/84)
Just had to stick my two cents in on this one:
STRICTLY SPEAKING, these are the casting times for
various popular spells. Instead of dealing in "segments"
and "rounds", I will instead compare the casting times to
the number of attacks a fighter would get before the spell
would go off. REMEMBER that if a MU or Cleric is injured
during the spell casting time, then the spell stops.
(table deleted to save space)
Now, as you can see, it does appear that any moderate level
fighter or monster will be able to chop up a MU/Cleric with no
problem, IF TIME IS COUNTED. But, of course, it is not. For
all you AD&D players out there, ask yourself when was the last
time you had to wait 5 segments (attacks) before the Cure Light
Wounds on your character took effect??
I stand by my eariler statement, that in AD&D, spell casting
time is almost completely ignored by most DM's. And, in addition,
that this is the fault of the system.
Steven Maurer
========================================================================
Except for one small problem : no fighter gets more than one attack per
round until at least 8th level. Segments are for determining WHEN in the round
an attack is made, not how many. Therefor the odds of a fighter having the
chance to blow an MU's spell are one in (cast segments), and then only if he
hits the MU. Of course, the odds go up if the fighter is hasted, there is more
than one fighter, etc, but the principle is the same.
Therefore the argument just doesn't work (unless you think a fighter having
a one in five chance of potentially destroying a cure light wounds is
excessive). The rules are hard enough to deal with without silly
interpretations like this one.
'Nuff said.
David Wexelblat
(...decvax!ittvax!dwex)
(...decvax!ittvax!wxlvax!dwex)steven@qubix.UUCP (06/02/84)
>> Except for one small problem : no fighter gets more than >> one attack per round until at least 8th level. Segments >> are for determining WHEN in the round an attack is made, >> not how many. Therefor the odds of a fighter having the >> chance to blow an MU's spell are one in (cast segments), >> and then only if he hits the MU. Of course, the odds go >> up if the fighter is hasted, there is more than one fighter, >> etc, but the principle is the same. Therefore the argument >> just doesn't work (unless you think a fighter having a one >> in five chance of potentially destroying a cure light wounds >> is excessive). The rules are hard enough to deal with >> without silly interpretations like this one. David Wexelblat (...decvax!ittvax!dwex) (...decvax!ittvax!wxlvax!dwex) I always believed this to be a typo, since a "round" is 60 seconds, and a "segment" is 6. This would mean a fighter could swing his sword once a minute. If this is the case, then that means that the '1" to 10 feet over a turn of 10 minutes' is ALSO not a typo, and people walk at an astounding rate of 6 feet per minute. Now while that is a reasonable speed for a tape recorder, it hardly fits for humans in a combat situation. Steven Maurer p.s. I don't consider my interpretation to be "silly", I am simply trying to make the best sense out of these rules as are possible. (Of course, if they were well written, we would not have this problem, would we?)
dwex@wxlvax.UUCP (David Wexelblat) (06/02/84)
Here we go again:
I always believed this to be a typo, since a "round" is
60 seconds, and a "segment" is 6. This would mean a fighter
could swing his sword once a minute. If this is the case,
then that means that the '1" to 10 feet over a turn of
10 minutes' is ALSO not a typo, and people walk at an
astounding rate of 6 feet per minute. Now while that is
a reasonable speed for a tape recorder, it hardly fits
for humans in a combat situation.
Steven Maurer
If Steve would read his Player's Handbook, he would find the following:
1) In reponse to his first statement above: See page 105 of the PHB (First
Strike) :
The 1 minute melee round assumes much activity -- rushes, retreats,
feints, parries, checks, and so on. Once during this period each
combatant has the opportunity to get a real blow in. Usually this is
indicated by initiative, but sometimes other circumstances prevail.
(See book for the rest of the discussion)
In this case Mr. Maurer is interpreting the rules incorrectly. However
2) In response to his second statement: See page 102 of the PHB (Movement in
the dungeon) :
The movement distance is 1" to 10' over a turn of ten minutes duration
while exploration and mapping are in progress. If the party is
following a known route or map, the movement rate is 5 times greater,
so each move takes 1/5 of a turn (2 rounds). If the party is fleeing,
all movement -- excluding encumbered movement is 10 times faster, so
each move takes only 1/10 of a turn, or 1 round.
(See book for discussion of melee movement)
If Mr. Maurer would take the time to think a little, he would realize that
while these rates are a little slow, there are other things to take into
account other than just walking.
a) The 6' per minute is for someone weaeing plate mail with a full
pack, not knowing where he is going, and trying to make a map of it,
while avoiding pits, rocks, stalactites and stalagmites, on rough
ground, etc.
b) A normal character will move at 9" or 12".
c) As someone who is a member of the Society for Creative Anacronism,
an infrequent hiker, and an even less frequent spelunker, I can say
from experience that these rates are NOT unbelievable.
Mr. Maurer: I suggest two things
1) Read your books
2) Try wandering around in armor, with sword and shield, and a pack,
where you don't know where you're going, and your only light is a
torch; then argue with the rules.
I've done it,
David Wexelblat
(...decvax!ittvax!wxlvax!dwex)steven@qubix.UUCP (06/05/84)
[*] >> Mr. Maurer: I suggest two things >> 1) Read your books >> 2) Try wandering around in armor, with sword and shield, and a pack, >> where you don't know where you're going, and your only light is a >> torch; then argue with the rules. 1] I have read the books (perhaps not as thouroughly as you have) and am still trying to resolve rather major inconsistancies in them. 2] I have done just that, in 3" wide tunnels no less! (I did have a flashlight, but then any enterprising 3 level MU, will sell you a Continual Light equivalent). Even weighed down, movement was more like 30'/minute during exploration, and triple that during chases. 3] If you are a member of the SCA, you certainly should understand that this "One REAL attack" bullshit, is just that. Most combats last less time then that, even including the sparring period before blows are struck. Given a 1 minute blow ability, two third-level fighters in plate/shield, wielding bastard (long) swords, would take about 15 minutes of constant hacking to resolve a battle. --- SURE IT DOES --- 4] Thieves with high dexterities, can shoot 2 times a minute?? Gosh, how fast. I must have a 21 DEX, because I can shoot up to 5 times a minute, and I'm not even an expert. 5] Even assuming the maximum human movement, we are still talking a normal movement rate of 12 feet a minute here. This is not only when "Mapping the Dungeon" but also in combat situations. Please explain to me why an unengaged fighter, moving across the floor of a room trying to move up and hit a foe, moves more slowly than a good tape recorder? If you disregard the rule, on the other hand, you end up with the ability of attacking from behind in every round you mele -- also not workable. Steven Maurer