[net.games.frp] Champions 3 review/problems & request for additions

steven@qubix.UUCP (Steven Maurer) (07/10/84)

References:
[Foxbat Must Die!]

	Since I have been thanked (blamed) for helping to create
    many of the ideas in Champions 3, I have decided to go back
    to George Mac Donald with a number of corrections to the text.
    You see, many sections of the new booklet are derivations from
    rules stemming from my own campaign.  But some have been mutated
    to the point that even I have a hard time recognizing them now.

	This wouldn't bother me so much, except that by reading the
    book, I have noticed several rather blatant holes in the new
    rules which are not in mine.   I have been spending a few days
    trying to find them all, but I am sure that I'll miss something.
    The idea is, of course, to see if I can get a better (clearer,
    less redundant, less buggy, less restrictive) set of rules if
    (when) Champions 3 gets rewritten.

	If YOU have any peeves about Champions 3 (or 2 or 1 for that
    matter), I would welcome your comments.   I will be talking with
    George this coming Friday (July 13) -- maybe a bad day for it --
    so if you want any pet peeves brought up soon, you should respond
    quickly.


		    BUGS/PROBLEMS ALREADY KNOWN IN CHAMPIONS 3

    OVERALL
	Overall Image:  Poor to Ok.  Looks rushed.  (WAS rushed for Origins 84)

	Layout: Very Poor.+ Art has little relationship to text.
			  + Consistant redundancies in text.
			  + Printing quality lacking (specks/ghost letters)

	Art:  Poor.       + Not enough imagination to the drawings.
			  + Certainly not comic-book quality.
			  + Too much of it.
		(exceptions to this is the Foxbat story line which was Good)

	Essays: Very Good.+ Evil That Lurks In The Hearts: A+
			  + Mystery Powers & Disads: A- (no mention of the
			    fact that you shouldn't curse a player with an
			    unwanted mystery power/disad).

	Campaign Planning: Ok, I guess.   Looks somewhat unnecessary to me.

	Record Sheets: Poor to Ok.    Forms look too bureaucratic.

	Char. Generator: Good.    About the best you could do with such
			    a silly idea.  Doesn't seem needed.

	Char. Disads: Very Good.

	Danger Room: Ok.  + Incomplete in areas.  There's a chart missing.
			    Go to page 58, and find the Initial Item Types
			    table.   To the right fill in this:
				3 - 8  Weapons
				9 -10  Robots
				11-12  Traps
				13-18  Wall
			    This is the Replacement Item Type chart.
			  + Betting Hero Points sounds silly to me.  What
			    does a hero have in his back pocket?  A chit
			    saying "One Hero Point"??


    OLD POWERS (Pg 22)

	Absorbtion:  Ok.  + Can make Absorbtion a cost worthy power,
			    (but) too many "options".  Any character with
			    absorbtion should be portable between games
			    in a consistant manner.
			  + A typo.  Optional Rule #2 should read:
			    "If the power is Absorbed into BODY, STUN,
			    or END, the points only drain away if the
			    BODY, STUN, or END is *MORE* than the characters
			    normal maximum value." (It currently reads *less*).
	
	Flash: Poor.      + An unneeded rehash of Flash rules.  (If the
			    player does not read it the first time, why
			    assume that he will read it the second?)
			  + Does not allow Overall Levels // Combat Levels
			    to be added to OCV/DCV of second flash. (This
			    leads to "DEX inflation", since Combat Levels
			    are too expensive to begin with).
			  + Too long an explaination.  Wordy.
	
	Limited MP: Poor. + A reasonable rule on the face of it.
			  + Problem with charge limitations in MP though:
			    40  Multi (60 active)  / +1/2 Lim Mult.
			    +4  u 6  12d6 EB  / 8 charges +1/2
			    +4  u 6  4d6 RKA  / 8 charges +1/2
			   =48
			    While a straight 4d6/ 16 charges costs 60.

	Multiple Powers:  Very Poor.
			  + Should be a disadvantage to tie non-related
			    powers together; everything but attacks.
			  + Should specifically disallow tying attacks which
			    reside in seprate slots of an Elemental Control.

	Clips:  Good      + Very good idea.
			  + Charges are much to cheap already.

	Continuing Charges: Very Good.

	Partially Limited Power: Ok.
			  + Isn't this obvious??
			  + Examples are too long.


    OLD CHARACTEER DISADVANTAGES (Pg 26)

	Berzerk: Very Good  Good clarification and addition.

	Hunting: Very Good  Too long an explanation though.

	Unusual Looks (expanded): Good
			  + Should allow a different name for each subset.
			  + Should allow more than one disad (5 points
			    Bad Smell, and 10 points Bad Publicity).

	Vulnerabilities: Very Good


    NEW POWERS (Pg 27)

	Detect: Very Good (too expensive?)

	Duplication: Poor + Too verbose and redundant.
			  + Little or no specific options that should
			    be allowed on Duplication:
			Stun/Body/etc Averaged Immediately: +1/4 disad.
			Recombine takes maximum instead of average: +1/4 adv.
			Duplication to different form (summoning): +1/4 adv.
			Show how to buy a Psychic link.
			  + Power advantages should be listed in one
			    (small) chart, instead of being spread around.
	
	Damage Reduction: Very Good.  Comment should be less verbose.

	Healing: Very Poor+ Already inherent in Regeneration / Recovery
			    that is Usable On Others.
			  + Complicated book keeping of "wounds", instead
			    of a universal (perhaps more expensive) cure
			    which works all the time.
			  + Does not allow for Healing of Powers which
			    have been drained or destroyed.  (Not a wide
			    enough range of effect).
			  + Healing power is entirely different in mechanics,
			    than its logical opposite: Power Drain.   Healing
			    should be like a "Power Un-Drain".
			  + Too verbose and redundant.

	Knockback Resistance: Good.   BUT A PRIME EXAMPLE OF REDUNDANCY.

	Mental Paralysis: Poor.
			  + Already inherent in Ego Based Entangle (old
			    beef I've had with George on this one).
			  + No mention of how Ego Defense is used against
			    the power.  (My rules state that it is used
			    both to reduce the active points of the attack,
			    and as a bonus to the EGO for breaking out).
			  + Berzerk & Psych Lim crocks should not help
			    you get out of a Mental Paralysis: ("Berserk
			    14/14 When Mentally Paralysed") problem.
			  + Ego Attack should be the only Ego Power you
			    can't use to break out of a Mental Paralysis.
			    Use Telephathy, Mind Control, Mental Illusions
			    instead (it's more "realistic").
			  + Example is redundant.
	
	Multiform: Very Good   Both terse and clear.  An ideal rules addition.

	Neutralize: Good  + A bit too cheap when compared with Power Drain
			    of powers, since Power Drain is Neutralize with
			    the Cumulative Effects (see Pg 33 bottom left)
			    advantage.  Cumulative Effects: +1/2.
			  + Encourages huge attacks (oh well).
			  + Comment at end totally unneccessary.

	Piercing: Poor    + Why buy it?  Cost/benifit analysis shows that
			    Piercer (from the example) will knock out his
			    target more quickly just buy buying extra dice.
			  + Armor Piercing is just as cheap, and more
			    effective.   An AP works equally well vs
			    resistant defenses, as it does non-resistant.
			    It does more Stun at the higher levels too.
			  + Piercing departs from the Power Advantage/Power
			    Disadvantage metaphor.   If I buy Affects
			    Desolidified on my attack, do I have to buy
			    it on the Piercing points too?
			  + The active points of an attack can be hidden
			    spread throughout a character sheet, buy not
			    listing this power with the attack.

	Power Destruction: Poor to Ok
			  + Too expensive, if the character gets all those
			    crocked ways of getting the characteristics back.
			  + The character should roll the dice, subtract
			      the Power Defense, and then divide by the
			      cost multiple to figure the effect.  Otherwise
			      destroying DEX is too hard, and destroying
			      END is too cheap.
			  + Regeneration should only heal body, not
			      everything in the world.   You should have to
			      buy Power (attack) Works Vs Special Effect
			      to get Regen to heal everything.
			  + Comment unnecessary and untrue.   I would much
			    rather be hit by a 2d6 DEX destruction, than
			    a 12d6 / No Range / RKA.

	Shape Shift: Poor + Most of it is simply a rehashing of the Instant
			    Change, Growth, and Shrinking rules.  (Only the
			    15 point ability is actually new).
			  + Should have just been added to Instant Change.

	Transformation Attack: Good
			  + Can be interpreted to replace Healing.
			  + Can be interpreted to replace Instant Change
			    Usable On Others.
			  + Can be used as Multiform usable on others.
			  + Not clear what happens when Transforming a
			    Victim who has already taken BODY.   Where
			    does the countdown begin?   If the Body has
			    been Destroyed, does the negitive body not
			    count either?
			  + Is not clear if you can heal cumulative Body
			    points taken that has not yet transformed
			    the character.  I would assume so...

	Variable Power Pool: Very Good.   Needs to be more terse though.

    NEW POWER ADVANTAGES

	Area Effect Cone: Very Good (terse and clear even)

	Area Effect (One Hex): Very Good ("    "    ").

	Attack Against Limited Defense: Ok.
			  + Forgot to mention Hardened Defenses.
			  + AVLD vs Ego Defense is silly when you have
			    the Ego Based (+1) advantage hanging around.

	Attack With Increased Knockback: Poor
			  + Becomes silly at the high power levels;
			      a 16d6 AWIK knocks back a character back
			      less far than a normal EB bought with
			      the same number of points (20d6).
			  + Dosen't get rid of the "punch a moth to the
			    moon" problem.  In fact it endorses it.
			  + I'll buy a Multiple Power Attack TK instead,
			      for considerably less points.

	Attack w/No Range Mod: Very Good

	Attack against Special Effect: Ok.
			  + Should be "Power Works Over A Special Effect",
			    since I should be able to have Regeneration
			    with this advantage, Power Healing, and a
			    few other powers that you won't see until
			    Champions 4.
			  + Forgot to include the No Normal Use +1/2 disad
			    on this power.   (You can still use the power
			    normally with this advantage, unless you buy
			    it with No Normal Use) Otherwise, it appears
			    to others to be too expensive.
			  + All Powers is a bit too expensive.  The cost
			    should be dropped by 3/4 its current advantage
			    points (x3/4:x1 1/4:x1 1/2).


	Continuous Attacks: Ok to Good.
			  + Controllable Continuous Attack could have been
			    factored out into an Uncontrollable Continuous
			    Attack with the Concentration disadvantage.
			  + No mention of the fact that the attacker must
			    state BEFORE HE FIRES, how much End he is
			    putting into the Uncontrolable Continuous attack.
			  + No mention of the fact that the victim can
			    stop the attack by moving out of range, out
			    of sight, going desolid, attacking the focus,
			    etc.   This attack does not go on forever.
			  + A referee could get caught letting in a twid
			    with a 1d6 Cumulative Transformation Attack
			    with this advantage.   (yeach!)

	Damage Shield: Poor to Ok
			  + Not a wide enough range of application.
			  + Too expensive (when you consider the END cost).
			  + No mention of what you do with attacks that
			    are ALREADY No Range.
			  + Is only a subset of Passive Attack.

	Entangle Advantages: Very Good

	Entangle Area: Poor
			  + Allows you to "kill the world" with an
			    exponential area of effect: 1d6 RKA /Area
			    Effect / Extended Area (16 times).  This
			    covers almost the whole world.
			  + Extended Area should work on an increasing
			      multiple: 1st level multiplies area x2,
			      2nd level multiplies x3, 3rd x4, etc.

	Extended Range: Very Good

	Missile Deflection Against Others: Poor to Ok.
			  + Already covered in the original rules as
			    Missile Deflection Usable On Others / At Range
			  + Too long.  No need for example.  Why waste
			      space for a rehash, when new powers did not
			      have enough room to be printed?

	Penetration Attack: Very Poor
			  + Is simply a Multiple Powers with an Attack
			    Against Limited Defenses added.   A 7d6 EB
			    with Penetration does 7 STUN minimum.  It
			    could just as easily be bought as a 5d6 EB +
			    2d6 EB / AALD: Hardened Defenses.
			  + From this anylisis, we find that the power
			    is overpriced.  Since the 5d6 + 2d6 AALD
			    costs only 50 points, and the 7d6 Penetration
			    currently costs 61.  It should be at most a
			    +1/2 advantage.
			  + Comment not needed.  Text too long.

	Teleportation Against Others: Ok to Good
			  + Could have been written up as the more wide
			    ranging Application of Useable Against Others
			    (not Useable BY Others).
			  + Usable At Range could have been factored out.
			  + Using a character's own power to resist this
			      kind of attack is an excellent idea.

	
    NEW POWER LIMITATIONS

	Activation Time: Good
			  + Included a refrence to Concentration, even
			    though it didn't make it into Champions 3.

	Animate Object: Ok, I suppose...
			  + This implies you can animate a high DEF, low
			    BODY object (like a diamond) with the same
			    ease that you can on a low DEF, high BODY
			    object (like a twig).  No chance of shattering
			    either....   is this really only TK??
			  + Implies that normal TK can be used in a
			    similar manner, only less powerful effects.
			    Is a character with TK really supposed too
			    be able to "Animate" a window pane to twist
			    it into different shapes without breakage??

	Burnout:  Poor    + Good idea (its mine), but the bonus (or
			    lack thereof) makes it laughable.
			  + Activation 14- and 11- has the same bonus
			    of a power with Burnout?????   1 Charge (0
			    END cost) is a +2, but an 8- Burnout (full
			    END cost) is a +1 1/2????   Ye gads!  How silly!
			  + Burnout and Activation should not be allowed
			    on the same power, since this is redundant.

	Ego Power Based on CON: Very Good

	Entangle Disadvantages:  Ok
			  + Entangle With No Defense is a +1????  How silly!
			    A 4/4 entangle hit by two consecutive 4 BODY
			    attacks would be entirely uneffected.  But a
			    0/8 entangle would be gone.  Same price huh??
			    Try a +2 disad bonus instead.

	Single Target Flash: Ok
			  + This used to be "Beam", and included any power
			    which was usually multi directional, but now only
			    single directional.  Flight with no turn power,
			    Armor from the front (a shield), Danger Sense
			    from one direction only, etc.   How things
			    get reduced in power and scope....

    COMBAT

	Leaping and Throwing Times: Very Good

	Recovering Limited Uses: I allow the character to get the power
			    back more quickly, only if he takes reduced
			    levels on his charges.

	Negative Characteristics: Ok.

			  + I don't like the huge breakpoint effect:
			    A character at 0 is perfectly OK, but if he
			    drops by 1 he suddenly has to make a bunch
			    of impossible rolls.
			  + Neg STR.  I don't like the loss of ground
			    movement, since flight is too cheap already.
			    All this does is encourage more buying of flight.
			  + Neg CON. Same bitch as top comment.
			  + Neg DEX. Same bitch as top comment.
			  + Neg INT. Ok I can believe it.
			  + Neg COM. Can I drain myself to gain extra
			      Presence Attack??  That's what it says...
			  + Neg PRE. Same bitch as top comment.
			  + Neg EGO: WHAT??????   To hell with Mind
			      Control, get me EGO drain!!   This is
			      too much.  How about he simply will do nothing?

	Shockwaves: Poor  + Bricks are already too powerful in Champions
			    as it is.  This maneuver (no matter how apropos)
			    should NOT be simply added to the game.
			  + This power is simply be the special effect
			    of a Slipperiness attack (Champions 4 again),
			    which the brick should have to buy seprately.


================

	Well thats it.  If you have anything else to add, please send
	me mail.  I don't have the time to do this, but that hasn't
	stopped me before...
	
	Steven Maurer
					    sun!qubix!steven
				  decvax!decwrl!qubix!steven