steven@qubix.UUCP (Steven Maurer) (07/10/84)
References: [Foxbat Must Die!] Since I have been thanked (blamed) for helping to create many of the ideas in Champions 3, I have decided to go back to George Mac Donald with a number of corrections to the text. You see, many sections of the new booklet are derivations from rules stemming from my own campaign. But some have been mutated to the point that even I have a hard time recognizing them now. This wouldn't bother me so much, except that by reading the book, I have noticed several rather blatant holes in the new rules which are not in mine. I have been spending a few days trying to find them all, but I am sure that I'll miss something. The idea is, of course, to see if I can get a better (clearer, less redundant, less buggy, less restrictive) set of rules if (when) Champions 3 gets rewritten. If YOU have any peeves about Champions 3 (or 2 or 1 for that matter), I would welcome your comments. I will be talking with George this coming Friday (July 13) -- maybe a bad day for it -- so if you want any pet peeves brought up soon, you should respond quickly. BUGS/PROBLEMS ALREADY KNOWN IN CHAMPIONS 3 OVERALL Overall Image: Poor to Ok. Looks rushed. (WAS rushed for Origins 84) Layout: Very Poor.+ Art has little relationship to text. + Consistant redundancies in text. + Printing quality lacking (specks/ghost letters) Art: Poor. + Not enough imagination to the drawings. + Certainly not comic-book quality. + Too much of it. (exceptions to this is the Foxbat story line which was Good) Essays: Very Good.+ Evil That Lurks In The Hearts: A+ + Mystery Powers & Disads: A- (no mention of the fact that you shouldn't curse a player with an unwanted mystery power/disad). Campaign Planning: Ok, I guess. Looks somewhat unnecessary to me. Record Sheets: Poor to Ok. Forms look too bureaucratic. Char. Generator: Good. About the best you could do with such a silly idea. Doesn't seem needed. Char. Disads: Very Good. Danger Room: Ok. + Incomplete in areas. There's a chart missing. Go to page 58, and find the Initial Item Types table. To the right fill in this: 3 - 8 Weapons 9 -10 Robots 11-12 Traps 13-18 Wall This is the Replacement Item Type chart. + Betting Hero Points sounds silly to me. What does a hero have in his back pocket? A chit saying "One Hero Point"?? OLD POWERS (Pg 22) Absorbtion: Ok. + Can make Absorbtion a cost worthy power, (but) too many "options". Any character with absorbtion should be portable between games in a consistant manner. + A typo. Optional Rule #2 should read: "If the power is Absorbed into BODY, STUN, or END, the points only drain away if the BODY, STUN, or END is *MORE* than the characters normal maximum value." (It currently reads *less*). Flash: Poor. + An unneeded rehash of Flash rules. (If the player does not read it the first time, why assume that he will read it the second?) + Does not allow Overall Levels // Combat Levels to be added to OCV/DCV of second flash. (This leads to "DEX inflation", since Combat Levels are too expensive to begin with). + Too long an explaination. Wordy. Limited MP: Poor. + A reasonable rule on the face of it. + Problem with charge limitations in MP though: 40 Multi (60 active) / +1/2 Lim Mult. +4 u 6 12d6 EB / 8 charges +1/2 +4 u 6 4d6 RKA / 8 charges +1/2 =48 While a straight 4d6/ 16 charges costs 60. Multiple Powers: Very Poor. + Should be a disadvantage to tie non-related powers together; everything but attacks. + Should specifically disallow tying attacks which reside in seprate slots of an Elemental Control. Clips: Good + Very good idea. + Charges are much to cheap already. Continuing Charges: Very Good. Partially Limited Power: Ok. + Isn't this obvious?? + Examples are too long. OLD CHARACTEER DISADVANTAGES (Pg 26) Berzerk: Very Good Good clarification and addition. Hunting: Very Good Too long an explanation though. Unusual Looks (expanded): Good + Should allow a different name for each subset. + Should allow more than one disad (5 points Bad Smell, and 10 points Bad Publicity). Vulnerabilities: Very Good NEW POWERS (Pg 27) Detect: Very Good (too expensive?) Duplication: Poor + Too verbose and redundant. + Little or no specific options that should be allowed on Duplication: Stun/Body/etc Averaged Immediately: +1/4 disad. Recombine takes maximum instead of average: +1/4 adv. Duplication to different form (summoning): +1/4 adv. Show how to buy a Psychic link. + Power advantages should be listed in one (small) chart, instead of being spread around. Damage Reduction: Very Good. Comment should be less verbose. Healing: Very Poor+ Already inherent in Regeneration / Recovery that is Usable On Others. + Complicated book keeping of "wounds", instead of a universal (perhaps more expensive) cure which works all the time. + Does not allow for Healing of Powers which have been drained or destroyed. (Not a wide enough range of effect). + Healing power is entirely different in mechanics, than its logical opposite: Power Drain. Healing should be like a "Power Un-Drain". + Too verbose and redundant. Knockback Resistance: Good. BUT A PRIME EXAMPLE OF REDUNDANCY. Mental Paralysis: Poor. + Already inherent in Ego Based Entangle (old beef I've had with George on this one). + No mention of how Ego Defense is used against the power. (My rules state that it is used both to reduce the active points of the attack, and as a bonus to the EGO for breaking out). + Berzerk & Psych Lim crocks should not help you get out of a Mental Paralysis: ("Berserk 14/14 When Mentally Paralysed") problem. + Ego Attack should be the only Ego Power you can't use to break out of a Mental Paralysis. Use Telephathy, Mind Control, Mental Illusions instead (it's more "realistic"). + Example is redundant. Multiform: Very Good Both terse and clear. An ideal rules addition. Neutralize: Good + A bit too cheap when compared with Power Drain of powers, since Power Drain is Neutralize with the Cumulative Effects (see Pg 33 bottom left) advantage. Cumulative Effects: +1/2. + Encourages huge attacks (oh well). + Comment at end totally unneccessary. Piercing: Poor + Why buy it? Cost/benifit analysis shows that Piercer (from the example) will knock out his target more quickly just buy buying extra dice. + Armor Piercing is just as cheap, and more effective. An AP works equally well vs resistant defenses, as it does non-resistant. It does more Stun at the higher levels too. + Piercing departs from the Power Advantage/Power Disadvantage metaphor. If I buy Affects Desolidified on my attack, do I have to buy it on the Piercing points too? + The active points of an attack can be hidden spread throughout a character sheet, buy not listing this power with the attack. Power Destruction: Poor to Ok + Too expensive, if the character gets all those crocked ways of getting the characteristics back. + The character should roll the dice, subtract the Power Defense, and then divide by the cost multiple to figure the effect. Otherwise destroying DEX is too hard, and destroying END is too cheap. + Regeneration should only heal body, not everything in the world. You should have to buy Power (attack) Works Vs Special Effect to get Regen to heal everything. + Comment unnecessary and untrue. I would much rather be hit by a 2d6 DEX destruction, than a 12d6 / No Range / RKA. Shape Shift: Poor + Most of it is simply a rehashing of the Instant Change, Growth, and Shrinking rules. (Only the 15 point ability is actually new). + Should have just been added to Instant Change. Transformation Attack: Good + Can be interpreted to replace Healing. + Can be interpreted to replace Instant Change Usable On Others. + Can be used as Multiform usable on others. + Not clear what happens when Transforming a Victim who has already taken BODY. Where does the countdown begin? If the Body has been Destroyed, does the negitive body not count either? + Is not clear if you can heal cumulative Body points taken that has not yet transformed the character. I would assume so... Variable Power Pool: Very Good. Needs to be more terse though. NEW POWER ADVANTAGES Area Effect Cone: Very Good (terse and clear even) Area Effect (One Hex): Very Good (" " "). Attack Against Limited Defense: Ok. + Forgot to mention Hardened Defenses. + AVLD vs Ego Defense is silly when you have the Ego Based (+1) advantage hanging around. Attack With Increased Knockback: Poor + Becomes silly at the high power levels; a 16d6 AWIK knocks back a character back less far than a normal EB bought with the same number of points (20d6). + Dosen't get rid of the "punch a moth to the moon" problem. In fact it endorses it. + I'll buy a Multiple Power Attack TK instead, for considerably less points. Attack w/No Range Mod: Very Good Attack against Special Effect: Ok. + Should be "Power Works Over A Special Effect", since I should be able to have Regeneration with this advantage, Power Healing, and a few other powers that you won't see until Champions 4. + Forgot to include the No Normal Use +1/2 disad on this power. (You can still use the power normally with this advantage, unless you buy it with No Normal Use) Otherwise, it appears to others to be too expensive. + All Powers is a bit too expensive. The cost should be dropped by 3/4 its current advantage points (x3/4:x1 1/4:x1 1/2). Continuous Attacks: Ok to Good. + Controllable Continuous Attack could have been factored out into an Uncontrollable Continuous Attack with the Concentration disadvantage. + No mention of the fact that the attacker must state BEFORE HE FIRES, how much End he is putting into the Uncontrolable Continuous attack. + No mention of the fact that the victim can stop the attack by moving out of range, out of sight, going desolid, attacking the focus, etc. This attack does not go on forever. + A referee could get caught letting in a twid with a 1d6 Cumulative Transformation Attack with this advantage. (yeach!) Damage Shield: Poor to Ok + Not a wide enough range of application. + Too expensive (when you consider the END cost). + No mention of what you do with attacks that are ALREADY No Range. + Is only a subset of Passive Attack. Entangle Advantages: Very Good Entangle Area: Poor + Allows you to "kill the world" with an exponential area of effect: 1d6 RKA /Area Effect / Extended Area (16 times). This covers almost the whole world. + Extended Area should work on an increasing multiple: 1st level multiplies area x2, 2nd level multiplies x3, 3rd x4, etc. Extended Range: Very Good Missile Deflection Against Others: Poor to Ok. + Already covered in the original rules as Missile Deflection Usable On Others / At Range + Too long. No need for example. Why waste space for a rehash, when new powers did not have enough room to be printed? Penetration Attack: Very Poor + Is simply a Multiple Powers with an Attack Against Limited Defenses added. A 7d6 EB with Penetration does 7 STUN minimum. It could just as easily be bought as a 5d6 EB + 2d6 EB / AALD: Hardened Defenses. + From this anylisis, we find that the power is overpriced. Since the 5d6 + 2d6 AALD costs only 50 points, and the 7d6 Penetration currently costs 61. It should be at most a +1/2 advantage. + Comment not needed. Text too long. Teleportation Against Others: Ok to Good + Could have been written up as the more wide ranging Application of Useable Against Others (not Useable BY Others). + Usable At Range could have been factored out. + Using a character's own power to resist this kind of attack is an excellent idea. NEW POWER LIMITATIONS Activation Time: Good + Included a refrence to Concentration, even though it didn't make it into Champions 3. Animate Object: Ok, I suppose... + This implies you can animate a high DEF, low BODY object (like a diamond) with the same ease that you can on a low DEF, high BODY object (like a twig). No chance of shattering either.... is this really only TK?? + Implies that normal TK can be used in a similar manner, only less powerful effects. Is a character with TK really supposed too be able to "Animate" a window pane to twist it into different shapes without breakage?? Burnout: Poor + Good idea (its mine), but the bonus (or lack thereof) makes it laughable. + Activation 14- and 11- has the same bonus of a power with Burnout????? 1 Charge (0 END cost) is a +2, but an 8- Burnout (full END cost) is a +1 1/2???? Ye gads! How silly! + Burnout and Activation should not be allowed on the same power, since this is redundant. Ego Power Based on CON: Very Good Entangle Disadvantages: Ok + Entangle With No Defense is a +1???? How silly! A 4/4 entangle hit by two consecutive 4 BODY attacks would be entirely uneffected. But a 0/8 entangle would be gone. Same price huh?? Try a +2 disad bonus instead. Single Target Flash: Ok + This used to be "Beam", and included any power which was usually multi directional, but now only single directional. Flight with no turn power, Armor from the front (a shield), Danger Sense from one direction only, etc. How things get reduced in power and scope.... COMBAT Leaping and Throwing Times: Very Good Recovering Limited Uses: I allow the character to get the power back more quickly, only if he takes reduced levels on his charges. Negative Characteristics: Ok. + I don't like the huge breakpoint effect: A character at 0 is perfectly OK, but if he drops by 1 he suddenly has to make a bunch of impossible rolls. + Neg STR. I don't like the loss of ground movement, since flight is too cheap already. All this does is encourage more buying of flight. + Neg CON. Same bitch as top comment. + Neg DEX. Same bitch as top comment. + Neg INT. Ok I can believe it. + Neg COM. Can I drain myself to gain extra Presence Attack?? That's what it says... + Neg PRE. Same bitch as top comment. + Neg EGO: WHAT?????? To hell with Mind Control, get me EGO drain!! This is too much. How about he simply will do nothing? Shockwaves: Poor + Bricks are already too powerful in Champions as it is. This maneuver (no matter how apropos) should NOT be simply added to the game. + This power is simply be the special effect of a Slipperiness attack (Champions 4 again), which the brick should have to buy seprately. ================ Well thats it. If you have anything else to add, please send me mail. I don't have the time to do this, but that hasn't stopped me before... Steven Maurer sun!qubix!steven decvax!decwrl!qubix!steven