jrrt@hogpd.UUCP (R.MITCHELL) (07/13/84)
Ugh. That's the price a DM pays when being sympathetic with
new players who make dumb decisions (I'm still going under the
assumption that this is a new player. Am I right?).
Well, I'm the DM under discussion, so I'd like to throw my
perspective into the fray. One comment that should be made: the
Ranger under discussion is *not* on the net, and is not in a ready
position to present his side of the story.
To answer your question, he is indeed new to role-playing games such
as AD&D, although he is very familiar with historical simulation
games. Thus, he has an excellent grasp of general melee tactics,
with the exception of fitting magic into his analyses (which, I
agree, is a major consideration).
It's too easy to say to yourself words to the effect of "well,
this guy made a dumb move, but since s/he's new, I'll give him/her a
second chance."
You are misinterpreting the situation. I think my players would
agree, I do not give second chances lightly; the prices are always
high. The current discussion really centers around whether the
Ranger is playing true to his alignment, and whether the Ranger's,
er, "willingness to leap into action" was endangering the party.
Since DMs are by definition Neutral (sure, Rob, sure), I will not
comment on the real purpose of the discussion. I will, though, jump
in with remarks on what you posted.
The party would enter the dungeon, fight/map
a little ways through it, then leave as soon as things got a
bit rough, to return the next day. I (thought I) solved this
by putting a beholder at the entrance after they'd entered.
First of all, I don't see a problem. If the players were
inexperienced, they no doubt would need a while to build up their
confidence. If they *were* experienced, then they knew what they
were doing. In either case, from the party's persepective they
didn't have anything that needed to be "solved."
Sure, the DM can get quickly bored with such a party, so I assume
that's what you saw as a problem to be fixed. But a beholder?
Come, sir (or ma'am, as appropriate)! Isn't that a bit of overkill?
Again, if the party was inexperienced, they didn't know how kickass
a beholder is, and so would naturally attack it. If they were
experienced, then again, they knew what they were getting into and
must have thought they had a fair chance.
I don't understand why a beholder at the entrance. If you wanted to
force them deeper into the dungeon, why put Billy Badass at the
front? If I was a player, I'd be petrified, and would refuse to
enter that dungeon again! Thus, you seem to have reinforced the
very behavior that annoyed you in the first place. If I wanted to
get players deeper in the dungeon, I'd either leave maps to
allegedly-rich treasures (greed is a great motivator), energize a
teleporter or two (once they're deep, and see they can survive, they
may be more willing to continue), provide a story whose resolution
requires a deep excursion, etc.
Well, needless to say, the fools ATTACKED it! I didn't want
to just kill them all off (the same sympathy for new players)
so I separated them into two groups, took away all their armor
and weapons, and left them to huddle in the dark. I explained
this improbable event by Divine Intervention: the beholder
did in fact kill them, but the Gods Were Kind, and resurrected
them, At A Price.
Different strokes...but you'll never see Divine Intervention in my
dungeon as a means of saving the party, without the players
initiating it and without a tough die roll being made.
So here's my recommendation: the time for sympathy is
over. The next time this Ranger-cum-Paladin gets himself
killed (do you roll monster to-hit rolls behind a screen? If
so, it's easy to fudge a mortal blow.) have him appear before
the Gods (a chance for some real creative scenery here), who
are displeased that he has taken their mercy for granted.
1) "Fudging" die rolls is cheating. If I caught a player fudging rolls,
that character would find him/her/itself on the 666th Plain so
quick...How can I hold high standards of honesty for the players if
I as the DM don't have them?
2) The rest of your comments, although enlightening, are irrelevant to
the real "problem."
I don't intend to sound like I'm flaming; I'm merely trying to say
you're answering the wrong question.
Rob Mitchell
{allegra,ihnp4,pegasus}!hogpd!jrrt