[net.games.frp] The Dark Knight

tlw@hocsf.UUCP (08/14/84)

Name: Dekith		Class: Fighter/Magic User	Race:Human

4)		Wis:13	Dex:16	Con:15	Chr:14

Level: 11/15(current)	Alignment:Lawful Evil	Hit Points:117

Armor Type: +5 Chain  	Armor Class:-2

Spells:

(1) Burning Hands, Charm Person, Magic Missile (x2), Protection from Good
(2) Audible Glamor, Darkness 15' Radius, Detect Invisibility, Invisibility
Ray of Enfeeblement
(3) Dispel Magic, Fireball (x2), Lightning Bolt, Suggestion
(4) Charm Monster, Dimension Door, Fear, Fire Shield, Polymorph Others
(5) Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Feeblemind, Hold Monster, Telekinesis
(6) Disintegrate, Globe of Invulnerability
(7) Power Word, Stun

Magic Items: (these will be posted at a later date, due to complications to
my Dungeon Master's Guide (I lended it to a friend ))

geoff@ism780.UUCP (08/22/84)

#R:hocsf:-12100:ism780:12000001:000:1127
ism780!geoff    Aug 21 12:59:00 1984

>>***** ism780:net.games.frp / hocsf!tlw /  7:22 am  Aug 19, 1984
>>Name: Dekith            Class: Fighter/Magic User       Race:Human
>>
>>4)              Wis:13  Dex:16  Con:15  Chr:14
>>
>>Level: 11/15(current)   Alignment:Lawful Evil   Hit Points:117
>>
>>Armor Type: +5 Chain    Armor Class:-2

How does a F/MU 11/15 get 117 hit points with only a 15 con?

The way I read the rules(guidelines), he gets;

	       (11d10/2) + (15d4/2) + ((11+15)/2)
       Fighter dice^          ^ MU dice    ^(CON bonus)

Even if you didn't half the CON bonus (and the rules are a little foggy on
this point), the MAXIMUM HP I can get from this algorithm is:
	   55 + 30 + 26 = 111
(and the odds of rolling 11 10's and 15 4's are ridiculous). I claim that
the MAX would be:   55 + 30 + 13 = 93.  Have I made a mistake?  (my PH is
not right in front of me) Or has Dekith done something astounding with
wishes? (I can't see LE dieties granting such wishes so propitiously) Or
are you playing Varient D&D (VD&D 8^)? )

Giving an evil character an extra 50 ( or so) hit points makes him pretty
kick-ass, I'll agree, but where did he get them?

nick@utcsrgv.UUCP (T.C. Nicholas Graham) (08/25/84)

> >>Name: Dekith            Class: Fighter/Magic User       Race:Human
> >>Level: 11/15(current)   Alignment:Lawful Evil   Hit Points:117

> How does a F/MU 11/15 get 117 hit points with only a 15 con?

Note two things:  (1), the race is human, and (2), the magic user
level has the notation 'current' beside it.  These two points would
tend to imply that the character is dual-classed, not multi-classed.
Dual classed characters operate in one class at a time, gaining levels
first in one class, then switching to the second, and proceding to
gain all experience toward the new class.  After the switch, he will
never gain experience in the original class again.  (Incidentally, 
the skills of the original class are not usable until a higher level
is reached in the new class than was held in the original class.)
This means that Dekith started out as a fighter, did 11 levels at fighter
hit points, and then 4 levels (12 through 15) at magic user hit points.
This would put his maximum hit points at:

	11 * 1d10 + 4 * 1d4 + 15 * 1 (con bonus)
	     = 141 (if my addition is on)

This still seems like an unusually high hit point total, but is at
least possible.  On the other hand, it is not necessarily a statistical
anomoly.  Characters who are lucky with their hit points are more likely
to survive.  Hence, the higher the level one goes, the more likely
one is to see high hit points per die.  This is just in the same way
that one would not be too surprised to meet a lot of smart people around
a university.  (NO smart comments required...)  Just consider it the
Teela Brown complex as applied to D&D.

					Nick Graham,
					University of Toronto

lmaher@uokvax.UUCP (09/07/84)

#R:hocsf:-12100:uokvax:2400062:000:1924
uokvax!lmaher    Sep  7 01:26:00 1984

I tried mailing this to ism780!geoff but it bounced.  Since I've
seen no one else post a reply I'll do so.

> How does a F/MU 11/15 get 117 hit points with only a 15 con?
>
> The way I read the rules(guidelines), he gets;
>
>              (11d10/2) + (15d4/2) + ((11+15)/2)
>        Fighter dice^          ^ MU dice    ^(CON bonus)
>
>
> Giving an evil character an extra 50 ( or so) hit points makes him
> pretty kick-ass, I'll agree, but where did he get them?

Dekith is not a Fighter/Magic User split class, but a Fighter-
Magic User multiple class.  Humans *cannot* split class, but with
high enough stats they can start all over in a second class, and
are unable to use the abilities of the first class until they
exceed their previous level, at which point they can use both. If
you were allowed to add the points together, then Dekith would
get:

       (9d10+4) + (11d4+4) + (9+11) = 9d10 + 11d4 + 28
Fighter dice^      ^ MU dice    ^(CON bonus)

which has an average of 105, not unreasonably far from 117.
Remember that hit dice top out at named level (9L Lord for
Fighters, 11L wizard for Mages).

Unfortunately, I looked it up and standard AD&D only gives you
Hit dice for your second class after you exceed the level of the
first.  So Dekith should get:

       (9d10+4) + (4)      + (15) = 9d10 + 23
Fighter dice^      ^ MU dice  ^(CON bonus)

with a maximum of 113 and an average of 72.5. It seems like a
rip-off to have to earn the experience but not get the hit
points, but that's AD&D (tm) for you.

I expect most of the characters posted will be human multiple
class.  In my streamlined-D&D campaign I have a NPC villain who's
14L Cleric/15L Paladin/16L Monk/17L Magic User.  I'd post her,
but she's probably well above 3 million experience points, and I
don't think I want to wade through the AD&D rules to convert her
back to the standard system, which doesn't even have Anti-
Paladins anyway.

	--Carl