lmaher@uokvax.UUCP (10/05/84)
I have a character with a problem, and I'd like to solicit
the net's advice. If the matter sparks discussion, even
better. Either post your solutions or send me mail and I'll post
a summary to the net (really!).
The extremely squeamish may wish to skip this. But then, how
many FRPers are squeamish?
First, a little background. If anyone wants further details I'll
be happy to post them.
The characters involved are Danielle and Garret, elven twins,
raised out of the company of other elves. Their only friends
were twin Uruk-hai, of the same age. Dani's a druid and Garret
is an Illusionist/Thief. The two Uruks are Outlaws (Anti-
Rangers, if you will). All are more or less 4th level.
The foursome was hired to investigate bandits in the southern
mountains, on the other side of a huge wall that keeps various
nasties in the south. Once beyond the wall, the four decided
instead that the poor Goblin masses only needed proper leadership
to form a very effective fighting force. They overthrew the evil
human leadership of one of the Orc groups, and organized the 60
orcs, 5 ogres, and 2 trolls remaining. With this force, they
intended to start a snowball effect, culminating in a jihad
against the humans to the North.
Through superior tactics, their force killed two very old red
dragons, and looted their lair. No casualties, but 5 Orcs were
killed in the brawl for the loot. Garret killed one of the
Dragons by himself (as a 3rd Level) - admittedly VERY lucky.
The Dragons had earlier slain and robbed a heavily-armed force
that had been transporting a black crystal heart. The Uruks
wanted to find out what it was (they're very materialistic), but
obviously Dani or Garret would be a better choice. With some
trepidation, Garret placed the heart (which was on a Mithral
chain) over his head, and in a few minutes it faded away,
replacing his own.
It gives substantial power to the user, including enhanced
strength, dexterity, constitution, charisma, regeneration faster
than a troll, extended life 100 seconds beyond 0 Hitpoints (with
no ill effects if healed back above 0 before the extension is up
- Regen doesn't work then, unfortunately), The user (owner?
bearer?) is invulnerable to poison and disease, never tires,
never needs food, sleep, or other sustenance.
It has one serious drawback. It cannot be removed, and the user
must drink 5 pints of elven blood each 24 hour period, or die.
His own blood doesn't count, as it has already been consumed by
the heart. Five pints will seriously weaken and probably kill an
elf, as it would a human. The nearest elf colony is across the
mountains, several days march away. It seems very unlikely that
there are any elves closer than that (with one obvious
exception). Dani and Garret have never met any other elves, but
they know there are elven forests to the south.
So what does he do? I'm interested in seeing any solutions
or discussion. Especially comments on whether it is better
to die than be corrupted, or whether hope is more important
than morality, or anything else anyone wants to say. Preferably
post, but if you mail please indicate whether you mind if I
summarize and post your reply.
I've got several ideas, but I'll post them later on to avoid
influencing your suggestions.
Carl
{allegra,ihnp4}!convex!ctvax!uokvax!lmahermartys@mhuxt.UUCP (SKEER) (10/18/84)
> I have a character with a problem, and I'd like to solicit > the net's advice. If the matter sparks discussion, even > better. Either post your solutions or send me mail and I'll post > a summary to the net (really!). > > The extremely squeamish may wish to skip this. But then, how > many FRPers are squeamish? > > First, a little background. If anyone wants further details I'll > be happy to post them. > > The characters involved are Danielle and Garret, elven twins, > raised out of the company of other elves. Their only friends > were twin Uruk-hai, of the same age. Dani's a druid and Garret > is an Illusionist/Thief. The two Uruks are Outlaws (Anti- > Rangers, if you will). All are more or less 4th level. > > The foursome was hired to investigate bandits in the southern > mountains, on the other side of a huge wall that keeps various > nasties in the south. Once beyond the wall, the four decided > instead that the poor Goblin masses only needed proper leadership > to form a very effective fighting force. They overthrew the evil > human leadership of one of the Orc groups, and organized the 60 > orcs, 5 ogres, and 2 trolls remaining. With this force, they > intended to start a snowball effect, culminating in a jihad > against the humans to the North. > > Through superior tactics, their force killed two very old red > dragons, and looted their lair. No casualties, but 5 Orcs were > killed in the brawl for the loot. Garret killed one of the > Dragons by himself (as a 3rd Level) - admittedly VERY lucky. > > The Dragons had earlier slain and robbed a heavily-armed force > that had been transporting a black crystal heart. The Uruks > wanted to find out what it was (they're very materialistic), but > obviously Dani or Garret would be a better choice. With some > trepidation, Garret placed the heart (which was on a Mithral > chain) over his head, and in a few minutes it faded away, > replacing his own. > > It gives substantial power to the user, including enhanced > strength, dexterity, constitution, charisma, regeneration faster > than a troll, extended life 100 seconds beyond 0 Hitpoints (with > no ill effects if healed back above 0 before the extension is up > - Regen doesn't work then, unfortunately), The user (owner? > bearer?) is invulnerable to poison and disease, never tires, > never needs food, sleep, or other sustenance. > > It has one serious drawback. It cannot be removed, and the user > must drink 5 pints of elven blood each 24 hour period, or die. > His own blood doesn't count, as it has already been consumed by > the heart. Five pints will seriously weaken and probably kill an > elf, as it would a human. The nearest elf colony is across the > mountains, several days march away. It seems very unlikely that > there are any elves closer than that (with one obvious > exception). Dani and Garret have never met any other elves, but > they know there are elven forests to the south. > > So what does he do? I'm interested in seeing any solutions > or discussion. Especially comments on whether it is better > to die than be corrupted, or whether hope is more important > than morality, or anything else anyone wants to say. Preferably > post, but if you mail please indicate whether you mind if I > summarize and post your reply. > > I've got several ideas, but I'll post them later on to avoid > influencing your suggestions. > > Carl > {allegra,ihnp4}!convex!ctvax!uokvax!lmaher I think you should let it die because its only 4 level. Not that hard too roll up.
disc@houxz.UUCP (S.BERRY) (10/18/84)
Carl neglected to mention Garret's alignment; I think this could have a crucial effect on the outcome. It may be interesting if this could cause a gradual (how gradual? Who knows?) change of alignment, as he begins to feel "withdrawal" due to the heart's need for blood as the 24 hours of the first day passes (temporary insanity, and accompanying remorse afterwards?) If his alignment is along the neutral or chaotic side (neutral or evil; I don't think a thief can be, say, neutral/good), and he can avoid killing Dani for some length of time, I think he should try for the elves in the South. If they have never even seen other elves perhaps Garret would feel no compunction about killing some, especially if there is any evidence the twins were exiled or banished from a tribe as infants. Perhaps due to some prophesy about an elf killer? By the way, if you read comics (Marvel in particular) try running the twins like Cloak and Dagger...could be REAL interesting that way. Scott J. Berry (a.k.a. Mordru the mage) (a.k.a. Logan the ranger) (a.k.a. Paragon the cleric) (a.k.a. Gizmo the dwarvan thief)
blk@syteka.UUCP (Brian L. Kahn) (10/19/84)
; This is the stuff legends grow from. This character should do anything to stay alive, although he may come to hate himself so much that he will take unnecessary risks. Like perhaps he will make his nasty habits known. Will really terrorize anyone his little band fights, and is sure to inspire devotion from Orcs and other lowlife. Meanwhile, keep the nearest elfen village PENNED UP and WELL FED. Don't let any of them die, he needs lots of 'producers'. Let the evil come. B<
ach@pucc-h (Stephen Uitti) (10/19/84)
Already someone has suggested punting this character with the black heart, "He's only 4th level." Bull! I've one (rhetorical) question on the situation. How does the character know the side effect, that he must drink 5 pints of elven blood per day or die? I hope this was explained, otherwise, the character should be run just one more day, then, when his time is up, there's no longer a problem. I'll assume the character knows. Let's say that the character is lawful goody two shoes. He has several options. He can sacrifice himself for his cause (the good of everyone else). He can decide to modify his morality standards. He can try to get cured. I've no idea what resources are available. I personally would just continue to run the character, doing the best I could to survive. It would add up to a lot of elves. Depending on the campaine, it could cut into one's mobility. In my own, there aren't that many elves. (It would take at least two of them to make 5 pints of blood - they're small). The point is, if everything is running as you'd like it, with no trials and tribulations, you have a rather uninteresting game. Don't quit just as the fun begins. Steve Uitti From the Cave of the Mt. King
lmaher@uokvax.UUCP (10/22/84)
/***** uokvax:net.games.frp / houxz!disc / 11:18 pm Oct 18, 1984 */ > Carl neglected to mention Garret's alignment; I think this could > have a crucial effect on the outcome. I didn't mention Garret's alignment because I don't think in terms of alignment; I create the character's personality, viewpoint, etc., and try to make sure it's not incompatible with the GM's worldstyle, and then run it without worrying about game constructs like alignment. But I suppose you could say both Dani and Garrett are Neutral. Another reason for not mentioning their alignment was to avoid stereotyping in the replies - e.g. He's LG so he just starves to death, He's evil so he just chows down on Dani, etc. Even so, two people assumed he was evil because he associated with orcs and thought therefore he would have no qualms about dining on his Twin. > It may be interesting if this could cause a gradual (how gradual? > Who knows?) change of alignment, as he begins to feel > "withdrawal" due to the heart's need for blood as the 24 hours of > the first day passes (temporary insanity, and accompanying > remorse afterwards?) This is one of the things Garret is afraid of - what if his bloodlust becomes so overwhelming he would kill Dani? Better to kill himself immediately, in that case. > for the elves in the South. > If they have never even seen other elves perhaps Garret would > feel no compunction about killing some, especially if there is > any evidence the twins were exiled or banished from a tribe as > infants. Perhaps due to some prophesy about an elf killer? I like the bit about the prophecy - very similar to the classic Greek Myths about trying to thwart destiny. That's not their background as they know it, but from a player viewpoint I could certainly believe in it. > By the way, if you read comics (Marvel in particular) try running > the twins like Cloak and Dagger...could be REAL interesting that > way. I do, and this is a very interesting suggestion. Except that his "foodsource" is more limited than Cloak's, but the same element of being able to feed from Dani (Dagger) instead of innocents or not-so-innocents. Carl {allegra,ihnp4}!convex!ctvax!uokvax!lmaher
lmaher@uokvax.UUCP (10/22/84)
>/***** uokvax:net.games.frp / pucc-h!ach / 12:30 am Oct 20, 1984 */ > Steve Uitti > Already someone has suggested punting this character with the > black heart, "He's only 4th level." Bull! I agree totally with Steve on this - the person making that comment must come from the "Don't name the character until he reaches second level" school of characterization. Discarding a character because he runs into difficulties is a cop-out; isn't facing terrible choices one of the mainstays of fantasy gaming?? The Paladin who must choose between his friends and his god, the mage who must choose between his humanity and his power, or the hero who must choose between his life or his honor - all of these are interesting dilemmas. Where's the sense of involvement if your concern for your characters' wellbeing is limited solely to the amount of time you've invested into them? I can't agree with sentiments like "It's only a firsty - kill him and roll up another." > I've one (rhetorical) question on the situation. How > does the character know the side effect, that he must drink 5 > pints of elven blood per day or die? After the heart buried itself in him he "knew" the properties, whether as a result of the heart's powers, or elven self- knowledge, (or an overly talkative GM :-) ), I can't say. It's quite possible that the amount of blood may increase over time. > I hope this was explained, otherwise, the character should be run > just one more day, then, when his time is up, there's no longer a > problem. That would hardly be very interesting, now would it??? Placing him several days march from the nearest source of elves is nasty enough. > Let's say that the character is lawful goody two shoes. > He has several options. He can sacrifice himself for his cause > (the good of everyone else). He can decide to modify his > morality standards. He can try to get cured. I've no idea what > resources are available. He's neutral, more or less. The good of "everyone else" means nothing to him, unless it's Dani and the two Uruks, in which case it means everything. (That's putting it a little too strongly - he's not completely heartless! :-) ) Once you start modifying your morals, where do you stop? A Cure would of course be the ideal solution, but the bonding of heart to (victim? user? carrier?) appears pretty solid; no way of removing it without killing the host, probably irrevocably (i.e. no raise). He's got even less idea of available resources than you do. > I personally would just continue to run the character, > doing the best I could to survive. It would add up to a lot of > elves. Depending on the campaine, it could cut into one's > mobility. In my own, there aren't that many elves. (It would > take at least two of them to make 5 pints of blood - they're > small). Elves in this campaign are near human size, with the same proportion of blood as humans (1 ounce per pound of body weight). I think it's possible to donate a pint of blood once a month or maybe twice with plenty of red meat, rest, and fluids. Or am I being too conservative? Anyway, that would work out to 150 elves - a small army. If you spread it out over a larger army, or a well-sized village, each person would only have to donate once a year, or even more seldom. Note that he doesn't have to take all 5 pints from the same elf. That much blood loss would certainly cause shock, probably with fatal consequences (in which case might as well drain 'em dry - good to the last drop! :-) ). With 1800 elves, each would only have to donate a pint once a year, although the logistics might get messy. And that would tend to tie him down. That's not even considering the ticklish question of getting the elves to cooperate. > The point is, if everything is running as you'd like it, > with no trials and tribulations, you have a rather uninteresting > game. Don't quit just as the fun begins. I absolutely agree. Carl {allegra,ihnp4}!convex!ctvax!uokvax!lmaher
jrrt@hogpd.UUCP (R.MITCHELL) (10/22/84)
As has already been pointed out, alignment is the key missing ingredient
in deciding what poor Garret should do. If he's not Good, he should
head south toward the known elves, accompanied by his close friend, Dani,
who could be *very* useful if the 24 hour limit is getting close before
any other victims are found. Fellowship is all well and good, but the Evil
types (and many of the Neutral folks) "know" that looking out for Number
One is the only real alternative.
If Garret walks on the Good side of the street, he ought to kill himself.
Depending on his Wisdom, he may consider what will happen to the heart
after he's dead -- does it "live" on? Will it possibly infect someone else?
If that chance exists, Garret may feel obliged to destroy himself in a way
that will likely also destroy the heart.
A few side thoughts: If he comes across any half-elves, they might be
useful substitutes (although he may need to consume twice as much of
their blood). If anyone in the party has a Ring of Regeneration (doubtful
in a party of 4th levels), Dani might wear the ring while Garret takes the
blood from her.
Dumb question: If the heart has already sucked up all of Garret's blood,
how is he staying alive? Yeah, I know, "magic" is a legitimate answer,
but it gets tiresome after a while. Is there a better answer?
Rob Mitchell {allegra,ihnp4}!hogpd!jrrt
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will
surprise you with their ingenuity. - G. S. Pattonlmaher@uokvax.UUCP (10/24/84)
Following are a few excerpts, hopefully of general interest,
excerpted from correspondence concerning The Thirsty Heart.
Names have been removed pending notification of next of kin. :-)
Their comments are indented by a tab, my replies are not indented.
The opinions are sometimes expressed strongly, but no flaming
was intended on either side. Further comments are invited, as
always.
Whether to die or to be corrupted? He's already corrupted if
you asked me, running around with uruks, leading an orcish
army, how corrupt can you get?
...Garret sees nothing wrong with giving orcs the same rights as
all creatures, or overthrowing the genocidal human overlords, but he
doesn't care for the idea of drinking the blood of his fellow elves,
especially not Dani's. And he likes even less the idea that the heart
may continue to corrupt him further.
I really wonder whether you can make it to the Elven village
in one day's time anyway. You might as well have Garret
butcher his sister, it would seem to be the typical action one
would take in that situation; One shouldn't lightly take on an
evil artifact.
You seem to be under the impression that Garret is already evil, or
intends to or wants to be. Such is not the case. Garret considers
nothing (including his own life) more important than Dani's
well-being. He could use the Heart to further their aims, but isn't
that what he'd think if he *was* becoming evil? Once you decide the
ends justify the means, where do you draw the line on the means? He
knows he could kill himself now, preferably in a way that would make
the heart very difficult to retrieve. But would it be better to hold
out in the hope that the heart could be removed, or controlled? Or is
that just the corruption speaking? Or if he loses heart (sorry) and
kills himself, isn't that really a victory for the heart instead?
It occurs to me that the real pity is that one of the real
uruks didn't pick up the Heart, then he would have had two
days to reach the elven village. |-)
The uruks' player said if Cresslor the Uruk had used the heart he
would have run over the mountains (never resting, seeing in the
dark) to the Elven Woods and become the Boogeyman. I rather like
the idea myself.
Carl
{allegra,ihnp4}!convex!ctvax!uokvax!lmaherchuqui@nsc.UUCP (Zonker T. Chuqui) (10/25/84)
> > So what does he do? I'm interested in seeing any solutions > > or discussion. Especially comments on whether it is better > > to die than be corrupted, or whether hope is more important > > than morality, or anything else anyone wants to say. Preferably > > post, but if you mail please indicate whether you mind if I > > summarize and post your reply. > > I think you should let it die because its only 4 level. Not that hard too roll up. I think someone completely missed the point here. The character might die anyway, but the mechanics of how to create the characters shouldn't really be involved in the life or death situations of the character itself. The idea of FRP'ing is to get involved with the fantasy of the characters-- if all you are worrying about is the mechanics of putting characters through their paces, I'd look at the attitudes you are bringing to the game... chuq -- From the Department of Bistromatics: Chuq Von Rospach {cbosgd,decwrl,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA I'd know those eyes from a million years away....
brianp@shark.UUCP (Brian Peterson) (10/25/84)
I think the character should live, because it sounds
like it could be a fun situation. Something interesting
to develop the character's personality upon.
However, what would the character himself do?
What would he do in such an extreme case? It might be
different from normal.
Brian Peterson {ucbvax, ihnp4, } !tektronix!shark!brianp
^ ^srt@ucla-cs.UUCP (10/26/84)
A long term solution is to set him up as a "deity" for a tribe of elves,
with their worship in the form of donating blood. I would go about it this
way (I forget the names of the characters involved, but call the elf with
the heart A and his twin B):
While A maintains himself elsewhere on a temporary solution, B joins an
elf village with a tale of being rescued in the wilderness from a tribe of
orcs by the demi-God Elethion (made up). He also notes that Elethion left
behind a magical artifact (some convenient trinket), which B now has in his
possession. B offers to pray to Elethion using the trinket on behalf of the
village if the elders agree. If they do, he does, making a big ritual of
it. If they don't agree, he is content to keep his religion private.
A week or so later, the village is attack by a large, blood-thirsty band
of orcs (courtesy A and his orc friends), who so outnumber the elves that
death is certain! B steps forward to the walls of the city and holds forth
the amulet of Elethion, and calls loudly for his protection. There is a
great flash, a puff of smoke (and whatever other fancy magicks you have
available) and Elethion appears on the battlefield between the orcs and the
village (courtesy a hidden pit in which A has been crouching). Elethion
looks like an elf, but is bizarrely painted and radiates a mysterious power
of personality. He turns towards the orcs and they shrink back. He steps
forward and speaks in a commanding voice "Begone, vile ones, or I shall slay
each and every one of you, down to your son's sons!" The orcs break and run.
Some fall "dead" and must be carried away.
Elethion turns back to the village. "I have rescued you. I am your
guardian, the guardian of elven destiny. Build in the woods a sacred place,
annoint it, and send to my place five elves a week, to participate in my
mysteries. "B" shall be my high priest."
The rest is simple....
Scott R. Turner
UCLA Computer Science Department
3531 Boelter Hall, Los Angeles, CA 90024
ARPA: srt@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA
UUCP: ...!{cepu,ihnp4,trwspp,ucbvax}!ucla-cs!srtjfw@mit-eddie.UUCP (John Woods) (10/29/84)
I think the best answer depends on a lot of things. If the characters are Evil, this is certainly in their line of work, and I'd go trucking off to find elves at once (certainly adds a bit of spice to the adventure). Good characters (*really* Good characters) would be horribly appalled by the situation, and hide in a closet until death. (Doing otherwise would risk intervention by the Good deities, too (subtle intervention)) Neutrals, well, that would depend on the balance of things at the time, but it isn't really a Neutral kind of thing to do. But then again, in some worlds, Elves and Dwarves *really* hate each other, so a Neutral character in this situation might enlist the help of more belligerant Dwarves (who usually are underdogs). External to the role playing, it depends on how much effort you have put into these characters (as someone else pointed out), and whether or not you think you could have fun playing this role. If so, then *go for it*. If not, bag it and try again. -- John Woods, Charles River Data Systems decvax!frog!john, mit-eddie!jfw, JFW%mit-ccc@MIT-XX When your puppy goes off in another room, is it because of the explosive charge?
moroney@jon.DEC (10/29/84)
I missed the first few articles in this series. How did Garret(?) get the heart in the first place? What story is behind it? Thanks. Mike Moroney ..!decvax!decwrl!rhea!jon!moroney
jwb@ritcv.UUCP (jwb) (10/30/84)
< Remember this line is not here >
Personally, I think that since he is only a 4th level character,
that he should just forget the character and make a new one.
-- John
( alias Croy the cool cleric)john@x.UUCP (John Woods) (11/01/84)
Regarding the person who suggested trying to set up the character with the Thirsty Heart as a minor deity in an Elf village... I wish to nominate this as the most clever thing I have seen this year! Maybe it would not work, but it would sure be fun to try!! -- John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1114 ...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPA
hardie@uf-csg.UUCP (Peter T Hardie [stdnt]) (11/02/84)
well, i'd say it depends on the amount of affection the boy has for his twin. if he doesn't give a d*mn, then he'll use her for cocktails and beeline for the nearest elf colony. otherwise he'll let himself croak and save her. pete hardie ...!akgua!uf-csv!uf-csg!hardie -- Pete Hardie, Univ. of Florida, CIS Gould username: hardie