mdb@aicchi.UUCP (Blackwell) (01/14/85)
[ Lets see how the line eater like White Gold! ]
Has anyone out there in netland read "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the
Unbeliever" ? I'm going through all six books for the *third* time!!!
This has got to be some of the best liturature since,... who knows when!
Not only is the writing style great (sends me to the dictionary for a new
word every few chapters :-), but it would make terrific frp gaming material.
What I wouldn't give to be able to create a 'forbidding' in a n AD&D game!
If anyone would like to persue the idea of gaming in Stephen
Donaldson's "world", send me mail.
If you *have not* read these books and like Tolkien ("The Hobbit", etc)
you will very likely enjoy them.
--
Mike Blackwell ihnp4!aicchi!mdb
"At this time of night (morning?) who has ideas to claim???"crm@duke.UUCP (Charlie Martin) (01/14/85)
I read the first of the Covenant chronicles and thought it was well written (although sort of a downer -- I know too many people in real life who look for every possible way to avoid good feelings to be real comfortable with it in literature). The second beek ended up against my Wall Spot (where all books that exceed a certain frustration level end up). The reason may seem silly -- certainly my wife thinks so. But the demonic things that Donaldson introduces in the second book are all named with Sanskrit words that represent very good things in Buddhism or Hinduism (moksha, for example). The ``cognative dissonance'' was simply too much for my little mind, and knocked me out of the book every time. After all: would devout Catholics be happy with a book in which the main villains were named Jesus, Mary, and Joseph? -- Opinions stated here are my own and are unrelated. Charlie Martin (...mcnc!duke!crm)
jagardner@watmath.UUCP (jagardner) (01/14/85)
In article <366@aicchi.UUCP> mdb@aicchi.UUCP (Blackwell) writes: >Not only is the writing style great (sends me to the dictionary for a new >word every few chapters :-), but it would make terrific frp gaming material. Pardon me, but I have to object. Sending you to the dictionary every few chapters is not a mark of good style, it is a mark of intrusive style. This can be forgiven when a novel has a good excuse (e.g. The Book of the New Sun tetralogy by Gene Wolfe, four books that are written in the first person by someone in the far future), but in the Covenant books, it always sounds like Donaldson is just trying to sound erudite beyond his true grasp of the English language. Half the time when he drops one of his ten-dollar words, he gets the meaning somewhat wrong, as if he has found the word in a dictionary and used it without really understanding what it means. Donaldson's great accomplishment is that the Thomas Covenant novels are still readable despite the too too self-conscious style. I can't put my finger on why this is--I suppose the secret is that he is so totally at home with the vileness of his leading characters. I can't think of a single fantasy book with a VILLAIN who matches the sheer despicable natures of Donaldson's protagonists. Their occasional good points (only displayed at the end of the third book of each trilogy) are there only as grudging concessions to the good that hides in even the most self-pitying screw-ups. So many other writers have to INVENT loathesomeness in their novels. Donaldson seems to be able to find it effortlessly with no measure of falseness detectable. It may sounds like I am damning the books, but I'm not. I awaited each one eagerly, and read them in as few sittings as possible. His writing is forced, obnoxious, and pretentious, but his unflinching pursuit of the worst that blind insensitive people do to themselves is unrivalled in fantasy. Jim Gardner, University of Waterloo
jvz@loral.UUCP (John Van Zandt) (01/15/85)
I also highly recommend the series of books by Stephen Donaldson. He manages to create a very real world, quite different from our own. The character development is thorough and the story line draws the reader into the book in an all-consuming way. The story revolves around Thomas Covenant, a leper who finds himself in a world where magic exists. What is unique about this book is that the main character finds it as difficult to believe that it is happening to him as I would myself. The book has much to say about belief systems and the human emotional situation. John Van Zandt Loral Instrumentation uucp: ...ucbvax!sdcsvax!jvz
reiher@ucla-cs.UUCP (01/16/85)
For those who haven't heard of these books from any source but the last posting,
I should mention that there are definitely two schools of thought on this
series of books. The previous posting summarized one. The other, in brief,
regards them as overlong, repetitive, and derivative, and considers their
protagonist to be a major pain in the ass. I belong to this school. With
no intention to start yet another debate on the merits of these books, I
would like to make it clear that they are not universally admired. If in
doubt, of course, read them yourself. The first two should make it clear
whether you wish to continue.
--
Peter Reiher
reiher@ucla-cs.arpa
{...ihnp4,ucbvax,sdcrdcf}!ucla-cs!reiheree163acp@sdcc13.UUCP (DARIN JOHNSON) (01/16/85)
> >Not only is the writing style great (sends me to the dictionary for a new > >word every few chapters :-), but it would make terrific frp gaming material. > I think Donaldson's use of English is not overly erudite as some would suggest. I didn't have to run to the dictionary every few pages (maybe once per novel). I admit he used a very large thesaurus (sp?) but this is usually considered good writing. If it came to the point where I couldn't figure out what was going on then I would be a bit upset. > I can't think of a > single fantasy book with a VILLAIN who matches the sheer despicable > natures of Donaldson's protagonists. Their occasional good points > (only displayed at the end of the third book of each trilogy) are there > only as grudging concessions to the good that hides in even the most > self-pitying screw-ups. I think this idea of having someone a trifle on the despicable side for a protagonist (don't look it up, it means hereo :-) ) is what made the series transcend mere adventurism. Besides, Lancelot wasn't so noble but we all consider him a hero. Darin Johnson
berosetti@watrose.UUCP (Barry Rosetti) (01/17/85)
> > The reason may seem silly -- certainly my wife thinks so. But the > demonic things that Donaldson introduces in the second book are all > named with Sanskrit words that represent very good things in Buddhism > or Hinduism (moksha, for example). > > After all: would devout Catholics be happy with a book in which the main > villains were named Jesus, Mary, and Joseph? > The reason iiss silly. Devout Catholics are usually not interested in the 'escapism' of fantasy literature (not to mention AD&D) at all (cf. Moral Majority). Literature of this type is designed for an audience that wants the excitment of that 'escape', just as pulp romances provide the same type of escape (if not the same form). Donaldson provides a wide range of concepts and names that the average reader never encountered before (myself included). I find the new ideas interesting and they provide many bits and pieces to use in my ongoing campaign. However, to the reader who knows the derivation of these words or concepts, you just have to take some of it with a grain of salt. The author can't please everyone and even if the books offend some, they entertained many many others. Barry Rosetti ( watrose!berosetti )
laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) (01/17/85)
Barry Rosetti knows some interesting Catholics, or maybe his definition of ``devout'' is different from mine. In the private Catholic boarding school I was sent to there was an awful lot of well-read fantasy and science fiction, and no less than 3 d&d groups playing after school, so I think his generalisation isn't universal. Mauybe saying that the evil forces were named ``Jesus, Mary and Joseph'' wasn't the best analogy. How about ``beauty'' ``integrity'' and ``radiant spirituality''? I forget the other ones -- those I remember.. Laura Creighton utzoo!laura