gts@wjh12.UUCP (G. T. Samson) (05/02/85)
There are occasionally other reasons to kill off PC's. Here's a cute one from a campaign I took part in some time back. We were all 3rd level characters for the most part, and we had been summoned to a town at the request of the elders to take out a skulk that had been terror- izing the place. We were mostly Lawful types, except for a NG gnome fighter- illusionist and a CN human cleric of Dionysius. As good L's should, we set up to patrol for the skulk; we split into 2 groups and I took my pegasus up to serve as a flying lookout. (Pegasus, you say? Well, it didn't last long. Mating frenzy set in, and well, you can guess the rest.) After this first fruitless night of patrol, I lost the pegasus as mentioned above, and we again split into 2 patrol groups, but with no skywatch this time. Yet another fruit- less night of waiting went by, and our cleric began to get a little restless. After we repeated our wait-and-see tactics a third time, we were suddenly noti- fied by our fighter/illusionist that the cleric hadn't shown up for his lookout. (Now the fun begins...) A small group of us ran all over the place looking for him. Eventually, we heard some wolves and went to see what was up... and found our cleric up a tree speaking to them and asking them questions. Our approach scared the wolves away, and one of our fighters (Cirrh, with strength something like 24 due to a girdle of giant strength) got really angry with the cleric and started yelling nasty things at him up in the tree. This is what sparked the conflict that led to us having to kill him. Well, the cleric decided that he didn't want to hear the fighter raving up at him, so he threw a silence at him, which only maddened the fighter more and took the cleric's spell-casting ability away. Cirrh started trying to poke the cleric with his ranseur, and the cleric came down with blood in his eyes and his +2 mace in hand, ready to kill. He was quickly disarmed (with the ranseur, one of Cirrh's weapons of proficiency) and knocked unconscious. After binding him securely, we removed all the stuff from him that he might later want, including his mace and a phylactery of some sort. When he reawakened, we told him that we would return his mace and other possessions if he swore by Dionysius that he wouldn't go wandering off by himself anymore. Unfortunately, he wasn't in a very conciliatory mood; perhaps being tied up and slapped around by Cirrh contributed to this. To make this shorter, basically, after telling us something like "I won't promise because I am a law unto myself" he (being psionic) tried to do an expansion and break his bonds. At which point Cirrh leapt forward and broke his neck. No save or anything was allowed; Cirrh's 24 strength and our cleric's helpless position took care of that. The fighter also had been ready for something like this; it took the rest of us by surprise. And presto, one dead cleric. This caused us a bit of trouble, in that we had to find a cleric before we could go on...but we found one, of the same alignment (and the same god, even! What a coincidence... but it was the same player) and continued. Actually, that campaign's been on hold for a while now due to commitments on the part of the DM... but what a strange way to start. I wonder how (or if) it will end. Anyone else out there got any strange tales of PC death? -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: G. T. Samson Quote: "No matter where you go...there you are." -- B. Banzai Other_Quote: "You speak treason!" "Fluently!" -- The Doctor ARPA: gts@wjh12 [preferred] OR samson%h-sc4@harvard USMail: Lowell H-41, Harvard U., Cambridge, MA 02138
jims@hcrvax.UUCP (Jim Sullivan) (05/05/85)
This has been shortened to only look at the bits that I want to ! :-) > There are occasionally other reasons to kill off PC's. Here's a cute one from > a campaign I took part in some time back. > > We were all 3rd level characters for the most part,... > ... We were mostly Lawful types, except for a NG gnome fighter- > illusionist and a CN human cleric of Dionysius.... > After we repeated our wait-and-see tactics a third time, we were > suddenly notified by our fighter/illusionist that the cleric hadn't > shown up for his lookout. > > (Now the fun begins...) > > A small group of us ran all over the place looking for him. Eventually, we > heard some wolves and went to see what was up... and found our cleric up a > tree speaking to them and asking them questions. Our approach scared the > wolves away, and one of our fighters (Cirrh, with strength something like > 24 due to a girdle of giant strength) got really angry with the cleric and > started yelling nasty things at him up in the tree. This is what sparked > the conflict that led to us having to kill him. > > Well, the cleric decided that he didn't want to hear the fighter raving up > at him, so he threw a silence at him, which only maddened the fighter more > and took the cleric's spell-casting ability away. > Name: G. T. Samson Now, here is the problem, Why take his spell-casting ability away ? A Chaotic-Neutral, being badgered by another party member, does a fairly non-destructive spell on the PC to shut him up. The clerics actions were perfect. CN's are different, and do things like that. Why? Cause it's chaotic. I would have given him bonus points for playing his alignment ! Chaotic Neutral is not Chaotic Stupid, as some people tend to play it, but CN's to chaotic things. Like killing party members when they are too weak to continue (it has happened twice to me). At any rate, the killing of this poor chaotic seems to be against all the rules of Lawfull Goodness. LG's do not walk around thinking about killing party members. An enraged and shocked Chaotic Neutral (in Life and Fantasy) Jim Sullivan
lucius@tardis.UUCP (Lucius Chiaraviglio) (05/07/85)
_ > This has been shortened to only look at the bits that I want to ! :-) > > > There are occasionally other reasons to kill off PC's. Here's a cute one > > from > > a campaign I took part in some time back. > > > > We were all 3rd level characters for the most part,... > > ... We were mostly Lawful types, except for a NG gnome fighter- > > illusionist and a CN human cleric of Dionysius.... . . . > > Well, the cleric decided that he didn't want to hear the fighter raving up > > at him, so he threw a silence at him, which only maddened the fighter more > > and took the cleric's spell-casting ability away. > > > Name: G. T. Samson > > Now, here is the problem, Why take his spell-casting ability away ? > A Chaotic-Neutral, being badgered by another party member, does a fairly > non-destructive spell on the PC to shut him up. The clerics actions were > perfect. The cleric's action was certainly chaotic enough, but it was also stupid, because he was in the radius of the silence spell and did not have an easy way to climb out of it. That is why he could not cast spells (you can't cast a spell with somatic components (includes all Clerical spells) from inside a silence spell in most versions of AD&D (including the standard one and the admittedly badly hacked variant we were playing)). That does not sound like a perfect action to me. As you point out next, Chaotic Neutral does not mean Chaotic Stupid. > CN's are different, and do things like that. Why? Cause it's > chaotic. I would have given him bonus points for playing his alignment ! > Chaotic Neutral is not Chaotic Stupid, as some people tend to play it, but > CN's to chaotic things. Like killing party members when they are too weak > to continue (it has happened twice to me). At any rate, the killing of this > poor chaotic seems to be against all the rules of Lawfull Goodness. LG's > do not walk around thinking about killing party members. > > An enraged and shocked Chaotic Neutral (in Life and Fantasy) > > Jim Sullivan I agree with you that killing this guy, given the circumstances, was wrong by Lawful Good or Neutral Good rules, but I was one of those who didn't have time to react before the fighter killed him. Nevertheless, the fighter could possibly still be described as somewhat Lawful Good of Neutral (as well as an action-before-thought type). Anyway, we weren't walking around thinking about killing party members, but things led to that happening in this case. It would take too long for me to describe the difficulty which the player who was playing the Chaotic Neutral character has caused for many AD&D games, and I can see how people might get fed up to the point of blowing their alignments. -- -- Lucius Chiaraviglio { seismo!tardis!lucius | lucius@tardis.ARPA | lucius@tardis.UUCP }
eliovson@aecom.UUCP (05/17/85)
> > Now, here is the problem, Why take his spell-casting ability away ? > A Chaotic-Neutral, being badgered by another party member, does a fairly > non-destructive spell on the PC to shut him up. The clerics actions were > perfect. CN's are different, and do things like that. Why? Cause it's > chaotic. I would have given him bonus points for playing his alignment ! > Chaotic Neutral is not Chaotic Stupid, as some people tend to play it, but > CN's to chaotic things. Like killing party members when they are too weak > to continue (it has happened twice to me). At any rate, the killing of this > poor chaotic seems to be against all the rules of Lawfull Goodness. LG's > do not walk around thinking about killing party members. > > An enraged and shocked Chaotic Neutral (in Life and Fantasy) > > Jim Sullivan *** ;jvfu393pu8%#(U)(YP+'$EGJI)yohlF$$%8hkL$"'O+`@@@k;LK0'0'&I *** The above line has been replaced by UltraChaos. While a while back I suggested that a Paladin would not work with a CN thief - I quite agree that in cases of the party both pc's could tramp along with each other. The Paladin may not lay hands on the CN if he's upset, but- you have brought out a VERY important point: A PALLADIN MUST REMEMBER THAT WHILE HE UPHOLDS LAW AND GOOD HE IS ALSO RESTRICTED BY THOSE SAME BELIEFS !!!!! ---- People of different beliefs can work together. If a few do not like the actions of one they can first warn him, if this doesn't work they can take actions like geas and quest (NOTE: the pc can act like he's quested even if he makes his saving throw and the others should have to glean this by themselves!) and finally expulsion or death. expulsion for minor problems like minor thieving or game disturbance- with possible reconsideration later. death for unspeakable thievery (like messing with the Mage of the Valley or Grandfather Assasin and thus placing the whole party in danger) or gross evil acts, and the like. I'm sure all of you are capable of judging. Moshe Eliovson philabs!aecom!eliovson
ncg@ukc.UUCP (N.C.Gale) (05/26/85)
Well, my Paladin drew up this Charter, which imposed restrictions on the behaviour of all party members, whether they signed it or not. The most powerful four characters (LN, LG, LG & NG) signed it, and enforced it. The members of the party could be whatever alignment they chose, so long as they did not violate the Charter. Doing so would result in the offender being put on trial, judged by the Charter's signatories, and could result in Death, Expulsion and/or a fine. -Nige Gale University of Cantaburium, Wessex.