[net.games.frp] Anything but D&D

ccrrick@ucdavis.UUCP (Rick Heli) (05/13/85)

> Having just got onto the net i was glad to see the newsgroup games.frp ,so with great excitement i subscribed.
> 
> After reading over 1000 articles i have one question to ask -DOES 
> ANYONE PLAY ANY OTHER GAME OTHER THAN D&D ?
>  
> There are many other games than D&D the majority of which are a damm sight      better.So lets here it for some of the better games.

Yes indeed!  For fantasy role playing, it's _The_Fantasy_Trip_ from
the now defunct Metagaming and for super hero role playing,
Champions by Hero Games.

Death before D&D.
-- 
					--rick heli
					(... ucbvax!ucdavis!groucho!ccrrick)

billp@ISM780.UUCP (05/13/85)

Yes, there are lots of us out here who wouldn't (and don't) touch
D&D and related garbage even with very loooong poles.  Unfortunately,
there are many misguided souls out there who can break away from the
stuff.  They spend long hours arguing Alignment and Class while the
rest of us enjoy something more akin to Fantasy Role Playing.  Hang
in there.  If you have interesting FRP topics to discuss, it will
be heard in spite of the noisy channel.

Bill Putnam
UUCP: decvax!ima!ism780!billp


     (`:   If I wanted your opinion I'd beat it out of you   :')

plutchak@uwmacc.UUCP (Joel Plutchak) (05/15/85)

In article <28700004@ISM780.UUCP> billp@ISM780.UUCP writes:
>
>Yes, there are lots of us out here who wouldn't (and don't) touch
>D&D and related garbage even with very loooong poles.  Unfortunately,
>there are many misguided souls out there who can break away from the
>stuff.  They spend long hours arguing Alignment and Class while the
>rest of us enjoy something more akin to Fantasy Role Playing.  Hang
>in there.  If you have interesting FRP topics to discuss, it will
>be heard in spite of the noisy channel.
>
>Bill Putnam
>UUCP: decvax!ima!ism780!billp
>

   This kind of thinking abounds here on the net.  People feel they need
to unintelligently criticize what they don't like.  [Inflammatory statements
edited out...]  If you don't like what's being discussed, simply whining
about it won't do a speck of good.  Neither the above nor the original article
made any attempt to add to non-D&D discussion besides merely stating the fact 
that it would be welcomed.  Why not initiate discussion on other topics?  I
for one would like to learn of other FRPGs, having only had the opportunity to
enjoy (yes, I enjoyed it) AD&D.
  I realize that I'm not enriching the discussion either; I *would* like to
contribute to the broadening of the discussions, but, alas, don't have the
necessary credentials.  So, Bill, how about it?  Enlighten us misguided D&Ders.

-- 
                                   - joel 

  "The only thing worse than a hacker is a hacker who's proud of being one."

don@umd5.UUCP (05/15/85)

In article <183@ucdavis.UUCP> ccrrick@ucdavis.UUCP (Rick Heli) writes:
>> After reading over 1000 articles i have one question to ask -DOES 
>> ANYONE PLAY ANY OTHER GAME OTHER THAN D&D ?
>>  
>Yes indeed!  For fantasy role playing, it's _The_Fantasy_Trip_ from
>the now defunct Metagaming and for super hero role playing,
>Champions by Hero Games.
>
>Death before D&D.
>-- 
>					--rick heli
>					(... ucbvax!ucdavis!groucho!ccrrick)

Finally, someone out there actually has heard of TFT and even plays
the game! I started out with the original Melee and Wizard , eventually
graduating to Advanced Melee & Wizard , plus the In The Labyrinth book.
(Sigh. I just wish others would share my liking and start up a game...)

As for other RPGs, I like both Traveller and Star Trek:The RPG for space
RPGing and Car Wars for Nasty RPGing [:-)]. Call of Cthulhu is another
good FRPG system ; It's certainly a change of pace (Look! Hastur just
ate your uncle!). 

Non-D&Ders Unite! Start posting!!


-- 
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"Space, the final frontier ..."
What ?!!?     ^  No more ?!?
But it's a frontier of frontiers !!
--==---==---==--
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SPOKEN: Chris Sylvain (transient user of Don Preuss' account)
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scifi@ukc.UUCP (I.P.Gordon) (05/17/85)

Having just got onto the net i was glad to see the newsgroup games.frp ,so with great excitement i subscribed.

After reading over 1000 articles i have one question to ask -DOES 
ANYONE PLAY ANY OTHER GAME OTHER THAN D&D ?
 
There are many other games than D&D the majority of which are a damm sight      better.So lets here it for some of the better games.


THE REAPER!
"watch out for the fruit bats, they make strange music "

pop@bunkerb.UUCP (Paul Pederson) (05/17/85)

*** REPLACE THIS TSR PRODUCT WITH YOUR OWN ***

I've played a few of the other systems in the past, but have yet to find
anything as grandoise as ol' AD&D.  You would think that other, newer
game systems would remedy the problems of the older systems, but that is
not always the case.

Take for instance Tunnels & Trolls.  At first glance it seems to be a
non-difficult, streamlined FRP system.  Not so many trivial rules to attempt
to keep track of all the time.  A big plus is that they have many
solo scenarios to be used with the game.  Our gaming group played it for
awhile, however, after playing the system for a while, it seemed to 
lack potential.

On the other hand, the ICE series by Iron crown has the inverse problem.
Sure, charts sell.  New variant rules sell.  The combat and magic systems
are more "realistic".  Our gaming group played this game also, but we soon
found out the combat system was too laborious and boring.  A few simple
fights could take a whole evening.....one of the players fell asleep
during one of the fights.

We've strayed away from AD&D on other occasions, but have yet to find 
anything which can replace it.  Sure, it's not perfect.  It has its
shortcomings -- as any other gaming system -- but most DMs have their
own variations of the rules anyway.

When we tire of medeval type role-playing, we try other games such as
Traveller, Chill, Super Heroes, Toon, etc..  They are all OK (I like
Traveller the best).  Anyone else out there play any of these games?

ncg@ukc.UUCP (N.C.Gale) (05/18/85)

Contact lenses: 


Don't complain about there being so much talk of AD&D.
It is a trait of human nature to enjoy insulting people/things.
And there's just so much in AD&D to criticise, well, the temptation
is just too much.

Despite all its warts, AD&D can still be fun to play, given a good
scenario, and a good DM,and good players (or tolerant ones).
It wouldn't survive if this were not the case.

I hate it, that such an imperfect system should be so prolific,
but I fear it's here to stay.
So discussion on how to improve the game is inevitable.

AD&D is in the stocks, here.
Try throwing a few rotten tomatoes, you'll feel much better.

-Nige Gale.
We meet at last, Frognorton

srt@ucla-cs.UUCP (05/19/85)

In article <28700004@ISM780.UUCP> billp@ISM780.UUCP writes:
>
>        They spend long hours arguing Alignment and Class while the
>rest of us enjoy something more akin to Fantasy Role Playing.  Hang
>in there.  If you have interesting FRP topics to discuss, it will
>be heard in spite of the noisy channel.
>
>Bill Putnam

I think this is a somewhat discharitable attitude.  I'm happy to see traffic
and reasonable discussion in this newsgroup even if does pertain to subjects
like alignment and paladins :-).  I think you can get something out of such
discussion even if your system isn't D&D.  I doubt that many of us play the
same system, and even those of us who do play published systems - D&D, RQ!,
etc., - play heavily modified versions.  So don't worry so much about the
system.
				-- Scott Turner

ttorgers@udenva.UUCP (Troy Torgerson) (05/20/85)

In article <> ccrrick@ucdavis.UUCP (Rick Heli) writes:
>
>Death before D&D.

Ok, death it is!  :-)
>-- 
>					--rick heli
>					(... ucbvax!ucdavis!groucho!ccrrick)

goldman@umn-cs.UUCP (Matthew D. Goldman ) (05/22/85)

In article <503@bunkerb.UUCP> pop@bunkerb.UUCP (Paul Pederson) writes:
>
>When we tire of medeval type role-playing, we try other games such as
>Traveller, Chill, Super Heroes, Toon, etc..  They are all OK (I like
>Traveller the best).  Anyone else out there play any of these games?


Traveller, Traveller, rah, rah, rah!!!!

Chill???


-- 
-------
				Matthew Goldman
				Computer Science Department
				University of Minnesota
				...ihnp4{!stolaf}!umn-cs!goldman

Home is where you take your hat off...			Banzai!

Kyllara :	What did you just do?
Moederan :	I don't know but it's going to be fun...

michael3@garfield.UUCP (Mike Rendell) (05/23/85)

[]

 Being a newcomer to net.games.frp, I've noticed not only an
 overabundance of D&D/AD&D articles, but an overabundance of
 fantasy game articles in general (yes yes yes, I know that
 is what frp stands for). Some of my favorite games have no-
 thing to do with dragons whatsoever.Would anyone out there
 throw screaming tantrums of rage if gamers suddenly start-
 posting articles on Traveller and Champions?

 I've also noticed that, unlike other newsgroups, we never
 seen to get any reviews.In an expensive hobby like this one
 reliable reviews are invaluable. Not to mention rare. (In
 particular, is TSR's Marvel Super Heroes really as wretched
 as it sounds?)   

jagardner@watmath.UUCP (Jim Gardner) (05/24/85)

In article <2949@garfield.UUCP> michael3@garfield.UUCP (Mike Rendell) writes:
> Would anyone out there
> throw screaming tantrums of rage if gamers suddenly start-
> posting articles on Traveller and Champions?
>
> I've also noticed that, unlike other newsgroups, we never
> seen to get any reviews.In an expensive hobby like this one
> reliable reviews are invaluable. Not to mention rare. (In
> particular, is TSR's Marvel Super Heroes really as wretched
> as it sounds?)   

TSR's Marvel Superheroes is mostly a game for munchkins.  It lets
you play all your favourite Marvel heroes (if you have any), but forget
trying to roll your own character.  Every time they bring out a new hero
description, they invent new powers or new glitches to the existing rules...
in other words, they have to kludge their system for every hero in the
universe.  The character generation system is a joke.

On the other hand, they have one interesting glitch that imitates one
aspect of comics better than other superhero RPGs: the concept of "karma
points".  Karma points are experience points in some sense, since you
can trade in karma points to improve your powers and skills.  However,
you can also trade in karma points to improve individual dice rolls.
I think this is very true to the comics: when your punch absolutely has
to connect, you can spend those points to make sure it does.  In that
final second when only you can save the world, you can...provided that
you've saved up a few points for emergencies.

I have adapted this to fit in my Champions campaign.  One Champions
experience point buys one Karma point.  At the cost of one karma point,
you can dictate one 3D6 roll without rolling.  Therefore when you
absolutely must take down the villain, you say "Surprise, I roll a 3"
(which in Champions is an automatic hit).  When you are going to die
if you don't make your DEX roll to grab the flagpole as you're falling,
you can roll a 3 there too.  Activation rolls for armour, luck rolls,
EGO rolls...all those things can be purchased with a karma point.  But
once you spend the karma point, it's gone and so is the experience point
you used to buy it.  In my campaign, where heroes average 2 experience
points a week, this means that karma points are grossly expensive.
Moreover, I have set a limit of 2 karma points at any one time, which
means that you can't save up to waltz through emergencies.  They are
only used in direst emergencies.

By the by, the way Marvel Superheroes awards karma points is silly.
For example, you can get more karma points spending two weekends with
Aunt May than saving the world.  Also, if you ever take a human life,
you automatically lose all your karma points.  This means that villains
seldom have points they can use against you, but it's hellishly difficult
to play a character like Wolverine and get anywhere.

				Jim Gardner, University of Waterloo

euren@ttds.UUCP (Leif Euren) (05/24/85)

Quote I C Gordon:
>DOES ANYONE PLAY ANY OTHER GAME OTHER THAN D&D ?

	And I wonder, WHY are we playing nothing but [A]D&D?  Myself, I do
it because it has some great advantages:

	Combat - is fast and fair and has just as much luck-dependance to
make it a thrill. With luck, you may slay a slightly more powerful enemy,
but there are sure deaths too.

	Balance - is not very hard to achieve. I think it's easy to create
balanced adventures (as TSR's modules are not).

	Rules - exist in a unparallelled vastness, even without non-TSR
extensions|modifications|variations. Everything (almost) is covered; and if
it's not there is certain some similar case that be used as base for own
rules. A DM may choose what he like, and discard the rest.

	Character Classes - though severely restricting the players i their
choice of character personality, it greatly helps the DM create interesting
NPCs.  And even the most simple NPC is more interesting than a monster.

	A Life of its Own - as seen in this newsgroup. The original rules
were in some cases so bad that they had to be modified. Players exchange
their modifications (as said above) and other ideas, which mostly makes the
game better, easier and more exciting to play. This atract the interest from
new players to the game, thus breeding even more modifications and ideas in
the end.


	May I say, as a final statement to my defence, that I don't like
[A]D&D when played 'by the book'. But I certaily enjoy/enjoyed every
AD&D-based campaign I've had the luck to be in.

							Leif Euren

martin@yale.ARPA (CHarles Martin) (05/29/85)

Re: Other FRP besides D&D.

Anybody out there do EPT (or S&G, in its new incarnation)?

granvold@tymix.UUCP (Tom Granvold) (05/30/85)

-
     I too have become tired of all the D&D material. I have not played D&D
for over five years now, and I have never played AD&D. This is not to say
that D&D is no good as a set of rules. But, I do feel that there are several
other games available with better rules. As someone pointed out, who the
GM, game master, and other players are is of much more importance than the
particular game used.
     Idealy role playing game rules serve two purposes. First they provide
a structure in which the action can take place. While I have heard of games
where the only rule is that what the GM says is it, I think that most people
find it more enjoyable to have a set of rules. In this way a known foundation
is established on which that play can proceed. If Humungus the Powerful bangs
a poor orc on the head with his maul, the players and the GM know how to
find the damage done and its effect. The rules are there to take care of the
details and let the people get on with the important, i.e. fun, stuff.
     This implies that the rules should not get in the way of the play. My
biggest complaint about RuneQuest, my favorite game, moves too slowly. I
have not given up RuneQuest since the rules feel more 'realistic' to me and
I find the world of Glorantha fascinating. D&D combat on the other hand
plays faster.
     Second the rules should save the GM time. Most people do not have the
time, interest and knowledge to create their own game system. So long as
the GM is not hesitant to change the rules to fit the effect that s/he
wishes to create. Changing the rules as needed is especially important for
the rules that are not so much concerned with the machanics of play, like
combat, as they are with creating a world. I would call rules on on
alignments as ones dealing with creating a world. The GM should be the
one to create the world. If s/he wishes to buy a world already created,
find. But something else is wanted, then create your own or change the
existing one.
     Enough of this tangent that I have gone off on. I want to say that I
too want to see more written about games other that D&D. It is not that
there has been no articles on other games, just no enough. About a year
ago there was a nice long review and response on the third edition of
RuneQuest. There was spurt of interest in comic book super heroes a
few months ago. How about some new stuff?
     Rather than just asking others to do it for me, I am following this
article with a review of a new game called Pendragon by Chaosium.


Tom Granvold

I didn't even sneak in a comment about how many D&D games end up being
an everlasting dungeon crawl or Monty Hal monsters. -:)

Of course, D&D and AD&D are trademarks of TSR Inc. RuneQuest and Pendragon
are trademarks of Chaosium Inc. (or does Avalon Hill now hold the
RuneQuest trademark?)

steve@avsdS.UUCP (Steve Russell) (05/31/85)

> .........................................  I doubt that many of us play the
> same system, and even those of us who do play published systems - D&D, RQ!,
> etc., - play heavily modified versions.  So don't worry so much about the
> system.
> 				-- Scott Turner

Been to '84's Games Caucus and '85's DunDraCon....
*NEVER* seen anyone play by all the rules.

DM: "First off--NO PSIONICS"

Players:  "Sure"  "hey, OK"  "No problem"  "What are psionics?"

steve
AMPEX

scifi@ukc.UUCP (I.P.Gordon) (06/08/85)

In article <949@ttds.UUCP> euren@ttds.UUCP (Leif Euren) writes:
>>DOES ANYONE PLAY ANY OTHER GAME OTHER THAN D&D ?
>
>	And I wonder, WHY are we playing nothing but [A]D&D?  Myself, I do
>it because it has some great advantages:
         Okay lets look at these advantages......
>
>	Combat - is fast and fair and has just as much luck-dependance to
>make it a thrill. With luck, you may slay a slightly more powerful enemy,
>but there are sure deaths too.
     
          How can D&D combat be a thrill?
          It is totally to do with the luck of the dice roll and is only fair
          if your dice are.
          You would need a hell of alot of luck to slay a more powerful enemy
          or lots of nice powerful magic .He can hit you easier and take the
          damage you do without even blinking,while he can easily kill you
          just because you made a lousy roll on your hit points.

>	Balance - is not very hard to achieve. I think it's easy to create
>balanced adventures (as TSR's modules are not).
      
           This is the the same for any game, the GM creates the balance.
           A good GM will have a good balance and a bad GM will not.It has
           no relavance to one game being better than another.
>
>	Rules - exist in a unparallelled vastness, even without non-TSR
>extensions|modifications|variations. Everything (almost) is covered; and if
>it's not there is certain some similar case that be used as base for own
>rules. A DM may choose what he like, and discard the rest.

        It would help if the rules wre writen properly in the first place 
        then GM's would need to make up his own or alter the originals.
>
>	Character Classes - though severely restricting the players i their
>choice of character personality, it greatly helps the DM create interesting
>NPCs.  And even the most simple NPC is more interesting than a monster.

         UTTER BULLS**T! Any GM worth his salt can create an interesting
         NPC with having to resort to silly and restrictive charachter
         classes.
         Monsters can be very interesting it just depends on the GM thats
         running them.

>The rules.........
>were in some cases so bad that they had to be modified. Players exchange
>their modifications (as said above) and other ideas, which mostly makes the
>game better, easier and more exciting to play. This atract the interest from
>new players to the game, thus breeding even more modifications and ideas in
>the end.

          No Kidding!
          You mean these vast and comprehensive set of rules that cover just
          about everything.Make your mind up either you wany rules to change
          so they can be played properly or you want a set to actually play
          by.
>
>	May I say, as a final statement to my defence, that I don't like
>[A]D&D when played 'by the book'. But I certaily enjoy/enjoyed every
>AD&D-based campaign I've had the luck to be in.

        Then you've either very lucky or you just haven't been in many games!

                                THE REAPER
             Beware the friutbats they'll go for your private parts!
    
      Now you D&D lovers have got something useful to flame about.So get 
      flaming,but don't worry I've got a TOUGH skin.

  P.S. Don't believe the name at the top of this article ,more than one 
person uses this login.