jagardner@watmath.UUCP (Jim Gardner) (06/18/85)
[...] The DC Superhero RPG showed up in our local game store last Thursday and initial opinion is positive. Seems like something you might actually want to play (as opposed to TSR's Marvel Superhero RPG). Like most other Super RPGs, this is a "buy your character with points" game rather than "random dice rolls". Combat is very simple (perhaps too simple), but it has some nice features. Unlike Champions, for example, where the person with the highest DEX always moves first in the segment, characters add their DEX to a D20 roll, and high result goes first. That's the nice part. The not-nice part is that there is no system for Recovery during combat; you get hit, you stay hit (what are heroes going to do without post-segment 12 or the chance to play dead for a bit while you take a breather?) Other stuff: the system is entirely based on logarithms (interesting approach). In other words, an increase in a particular characteristic gives an exponential improvement in performance. (Batman, for example, who is simply a strong normal has STR 5; Wonder Woman who casually tosses around cars has STR 7.) Don't know how this pans out in combat yet -- no one has really done more with the game than a few mock skirmishes -- but it makes certain calculations really easy (adding logarithms to multiply things). The package includes a book of powers and skills (nothing new, but it is as complete as Champions I, II, and III put together), a GM book with tips on how to handle adventures and campaigns, an adventure with the Teen Titan characters (a little too simplistic for my tastes), and stats for a large number of DC characters. For those who like and read comic books, these stats are extremely useful. Once and for all, you can find out how strong Superman is and get a complete list of his powers. A friend of mine is busy at this moment translating these stats into Champions terms for use in a Champions campaign sometime soon -- the conversion process is not included in the game (who's surprised?) but it is fairly straightforward. Possible weaknesses: no provision for character disadvantages a la Champions, Superworld, etc. The rules DO state that you can choose to role-play such disadvantages and that the GM can introduce stock "sub-plots" that are based on Hunteds, Dependent NPCs, etc. However, no effort to encourage these. Personally, I always thought the character disadvantage concept was one of the nicest in other superhero systems. It forced the player to make his/her character more than a list of numbers designed to kill things. Experience points can be used like karma points in Marvel Superheros, i.e. you can spend your experience points during an adventure to improve your chances of succeeding at a task or to add to damage done in combat. They can also be used to upgrade stats, powers, or skills. Observation: it looks to me that characters change very slowly in this game. Unlike D&D where you get quantum leaps of ability with every level, I suspect your characters will stay relatively the same for a long time, even more so than in Champions. Of course, I may find that I'm wrong once I've had a chance to play the game for any period of time. All in all, DC Superheroes RPG is a real game, unlike the Marvel Superhero RPG. (Very quickly, the Marvel version is too chaotic to be able to play anything but the pre-defined characters that come with the game. Every time they get a new hero, they invent a new set of powers to cover what the hero can do in the comics -- no consistent framework for creating your own characters or ranking created characters.) I don't know if the DC game is interesting enough to draw people away from other superhero games (maybe there will be some good modules), but if you've always been interested in superhero games but have never started on one, it's well worth examining. If you're a fan of DC comics, the comparative stats are probably worth the price of admission. (Who's really more powerful; Darkseid or Braniac? You could be surprised.) Jim Gardner, University of Waterloo
blumberg@ihuxw.UUCP (Marc R Blumberg) (06/20/85)
> From ihnp4!cbosgd!clyde!watmath!jagardner Tue Jun 18 09:42:54 1985 > [...] > Like most other Super RPGs, this is a "buy your character with > points" game rather than "random dice rolls". Combat is very > simple (perhaps too simple), but it has some nice features. > Unlike Champions, for example, where the person with the highest > DEX always moves first in the segment, characters add their DEX > to a D20 roll, and high result goes first. That's the nice part. This is the system used in V&V, and it's not as nice as it appears to be. Every round of combat requires a die roll for EACH character, NPCs included. If the GM is running a large villain group, this can be time-consuming. In Champions, the GM can construct a SPEED chart before the game to handle the sequence. It is also untrue that in Champions the person with the highest DEX moves first in the segment. There are at least three provisions in the rules (that I can think of) that allow for a lower DEX character to "beat out" a higher one: 1) Characters holding back from a previous phase may take their action WHENEVER THEY WANT. This is a classic way for a group of heroes to gnag up on a major baddie by hitting him all at once. 2) In "hostage situations," the perpetrator may always fire before the hero advances, even if the hero has a higher DEX. This is similar to, but not quite the same as, example number 1. 3) Performing a "Block" maneuver on a previous phase allows a hero to act before his opponent on the next phase, even if that opponent has a higher DEX. > The not-nice part is that there is no system for Recovery during > combat; you get hit, you stay hit (what are heroes going to do > without post-segment 12 or the chance to play dead for a bit while > you take a breather?) Agreed. But isn't there a healing power somewhere? This has a familiar AD&D(tm) smell. > Other stuff: the system is entirely based on logarithms (interesting > approach). In other words, an increase in a particular characteristic > gives an exponential improvement in performance. (Batman, for example, > who is simply a strong normal has STR 5; Wonder Woman who casually tosses > around cars has STR 7.) Don't know how this pans out in combat yet -- no > one has really done more with the game than a few mock skirmishes -- but > it makes certain calculations really easy (adding logarithms to > multiply things). The Champions system is also based on logarithms, but Champions hides it much better. Every 5 pts. in a power DOUBLES its effectiveness, so two people with 65 Strength can lift as much a one person with 70 STR. The difference is that the unit of power in DC Heroes cost 1 pt, and in Champions it is 5 pts. Only the cost structure differs. > The package includes a book of powers and skills (nothing new, but it > is as complete as Champions I, II, and III put together), a GM book > with tips on how to handle adventures and campaigns, an adventure with > the Teen Titan characters (a little too simplistic for my tastes), > and stats for a large number of DC characters. For those who like > and read comic books, these stats are extremely useful. Once and > for all, you can find out how strong Superman is and get a complete > list of his powers. I haven't seen the packaged version yet, but if I remember correctly, there were several powers which I thought would be included but weren't. Also, many of the powers are redundant. Minor gripe: Is Starfire that prominent that they call an ordinary Energy Blast a "Starbolt?" It is also apparent that many of the powers were created just because certain DC characters possessed them (this is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is fun to try to figure out which power was inspired by which character). Also, if your interests are to role-play the DC characters (Superman, et.al) this makes things so much easier. The big difference between this game and the M*rv*l game is that this game encourages home-made characters, and the M*rv*l game dictates the use of stock M*rv*l characters (also not a bad thing, if that's what you're interested in). > A friend of mine is busy at this moment translating > these stats into Champions terms for use in a Champions campaign > sometime soon -- the conversion process is not included in the game > (who's surprised?) but it is fairly straightforward. Great! How about posting them? I get the feeling that Champions is played much more on the net than the postings indicate. One of the unique things about Hero Games, is that they encourage conversions between systems. In the long run, it sells more of BOTH companies products. > Possible weaknesses: no provision for character disadvantages a la > Champions, Superworld, etc. The rules DO state that you can choose > to role-play such disadvantages and that the GM can introduce stock > "sub-plots" that are based on Hunteds, Dependent NPCs, etc. However, > no effort to encourage these. Personally, I always thought the character > disadvantage concept was one of the nicest in other superhero systems. > It forced the player to make his/her character more than a list of > numbers designed to kill things. Agreed. This was a MAJOR gripe I had when I received my play-test version. I talked to the designer about this, and he agreed. I have not, unfortunately, seen the final product, so I can't comment on what he finally included. Perhaps if there is a need, a future supplement can include this. > Experience points can be used like karma points in Marvel Superheros, > i.e. you can spend your experience points during an adventure to improve > your chances of succeeding at a task or to add to damage done in combat. Okay, okay. Here is something Champions DOESN'T have. > All in all, DC Superheroes RPG is a real game, unlike the Marvel > Superhero RPG. (Very quickly, the Marvel version is too chaotic > to be able to play anything but the pre-defined characters that > come with the game. Every time they get a new hero, they invent > a new set of powers to cover what the hero can do in the comics -- > no consistent framework for creating your own characters or ranking > created characters.) > Jim Gardner, University of Waterloo I know, isn't that frustrating? This is as good a time as any to administer a short Superhero RPG questionnaire(sp?). It is short (one question). Do you play any Superhero RPGs, and which ones? This is terrific medium for sharing conversion ideas between the systems. For instance, I have created V&V to Champions conversion, which is somewhat good. I can post it is there is any interest. Marc R. Blumberg AT&T Bell Laboratories ihnp4!ihuxw!blumberg