[net.games.frp] Saving Throws

barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) (07/16/85)

A piece of E-Mail from one reader reminds me of another problem I have with
D&D saving throws:  some of them aren't against magic but against perfectly
normal physical phenomena like poison, death, etc.

I don't think your reaction to poison should be determined by your character
class or level.  I think it should be determined by your species and body
weight.  And Constitution.  (Incidentally, your reaction to alcohol and
drugs should be affected by the same factors.  One of the areas in which
using English leads one to think accurately is calling this "inTOXICation.")

Your chance of being transformed (into stone, a polymorphed living form,
or whatever) is probably a save against magic PLUS some sort of CON roll
to see if you survive the change.

And so on....(Sapienza at one point proposed a Highly Complicated Saving
Throw System in which there were at least six classes of save, each based
on a particular characeristic and NONE based on your level and character
class.)

--Lee Gold

warack@aero.ARPA (Chris Warack ) (07/16/85)

>I don't think your reaction to poison should be determined by your character
>class or level.  I think it should be determined by your species and body
>weight.  And Constitution.  (Incidentally, your reaction to alcohol and
>drugs should be affected by the same factors.  One of the areas in which
>using English leads one to think accurately is calling this "inTOXICation.")

What composes a saving throw is open to debate, but don't forget that a
person who is more 'experienced' will know better what to do when he is
poisoned.  Even in real life, if you know what to do, you can save yourself
a lot of hurt {whether it is a rattlesnake, pesticide, or alcohol}.
Even though having a lot of experience doesn't mean you have THAT experience,
the system doesn't record types of experience [a whole 'nuther discussion]
for simplicity.

>Your chance of being transformed (into stone, a polymorphed living form,
>or whatever) is probably a save against magic PLUS some sort of CON roll
>to see if you survive the change.

That is exactly what should happen ...  A save vs. magic to see if the
spell takes affect.  [Although deferred]  A system-shock roll [based on CON]
if the spell is neutralized.

>And so on....(Sapienza at one point proposed a Highly Complicated Saving
>Throw System in which there were at least six classes of save, each based
>on a particular characeristic and NONE based on your level and character
>class.)

The good of the saving throw system is that it is simple.  It isn't hard
for a character to even memorize his saving throw rolls.  Of course,
if the system doesn't work for you, don't use it; devise your own.
But, if you think about it, the system works pretty well and does what
it should.

Chris Warack

warack@aero.UUCP
warack@aerospace.ARPA

"All hail Discordia"

bob@plus5.UUCP (Bob Simpson) (07/19/85)

In article <2151@sdcrdcf.UUCP>, barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) writes:
> ...another problem I have with D&D saving throws:
> 
> I don't think your reaction to poison should be determined by your character
> class or level.  I think it should be determined by your species and body
> weight.  And Constitution.

	One of the good things about [OARV]D&D is the simplicity of the
	systems.  I don't have any quibble with saves (ignoring the "chained
	to the wall" problem) except the fact that the bonus is not flat for
	all classes, i.e. the same experience grouping used for combat is used
	to represent "advancement" in your "luck"
--
	Dr. Bob
	High Priest, Reformed Church of Smithing the Heretic

	UUCP	..!{ihnp4,cbosgd,seismo}!plus5!bob

tomk@ur-laser.uucp (Tom Kessler) (07/24/85)

I think experience should count at least a little towards saving throws
for poison and intoxication.  You would probably be more skilled at
detecting poison in food or whatever, avoiding being stabbed by poison
needles, sucking the poison out (a la snake bite) or whatever.-- 
--------------------------
		   Tom Kessler {allegra |seismo }!rochester!ur-laser!tomk
Laboratory for Laser Energetics               Phone: (716)- 275 - 5101
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Rochester, New York 14623